Dascombe

6 hours ago, Terra said:

First of all, not "3 and a half weeks". It's been maybe… 2-3 days over two weeks. So, not three weeks, much less three and a half.

2-3 days over two weeks? Dankus was banned on the 16th of May. Today is the 3rd of June. That's 18 days in total. Admittedly three and a half (which is what I was told so my source is wrong for which I apologize) is incorrect but 2-3 days over the course of two weeks, what nonsense is that? I assume this is just a verbal hiccup?

As for being told "It's still being discussed", you have multiple times contacted me through Discord PM's, inquiring about the ongoing situation. Each of those times I have told you that it was still being discussed, but the issue was a bit tacky. I also told you that we would be releasing a more specific system to deal with future situations and after that we'd discuss it again. Needless to say, we aren't going to tell everyone how the current situation is unfolding, or what we're waiting on or how things are. You, McDankus, are good to know, but when there's no clear declaration being issued, I am not going to go divulging every single word we've talked about the matter.

 

The thing about this is that those players realised their error and went quiet. McDankus, on the other hand, proceeded to try and keep the topic going after being warned to stop, and once he was banned he brought the discussion to PM's. So he escalated the situation, knowingly. Hence why his "punishment" might have been harsher than those.

Indeed his punishment -was- harsher. He continued and got a 72hr ban. That should have been the end of it as we have all said repeatedly. He even accepts the 72hr ban willingly and honestly this could have -all- been avoided had (and i'll mention this again as you've clearly forgotten) Elle not taken it upon himself to inflate his ego and chose to permanantly ban Dankus rather than FOLLOW THE RULES STATED ON THE FORUM AND BLOCK HIM.

 

As for Dascombe's entire post (As I feel it is too much to quote it entirely): you are just posting your own assumptions and calling Elle a coward (Personal attacks), even though it's been said many times that he has internet issues that are out of his hands to fix. These assumptions and attacks is what has kept the issue ongoing, and keeps making Staff reluctant to unban Dankus. It -might- not be him telling you to post this, but these sort of actions (Not you posting in his defense, as that's perfectly normal, but the accusations and personal attacks) also have consequences against his image.

Many times? This is literally the first i've heard of it. Each time i've asked where Elle is i've got back absolute silence, so thank you for -finally- informing us as to where the head keeper is. These assumptions keep coming because, frankly, it looks like Elle is hiding. Genuinely this is the first time I have actually heard -ANYTHING- about what's happening regarding Elle's response and you are the first in a week and a half to answer it. Also if staff are basing Dankus' ban on what other people say and do in the community then frankly that is -wrong-. It is utterly and contemptibly wrong. What would you say if the same was the other way round? I very much doubt anything would come of it if the tables were turned. 

 

I do, however, understand the issue that stems from the ticket backlog considering a few of them are for big stuff and without Elle's intervention the other Keepers can't do anything about it. Sadly, it is not I (The Curator) who has word on it. All that I can say about it is that I'll try to get some things going on later on today if Elle's ISP hasn't done their job by then.

As i've stipulated in quite a few of my tickets which have been Elle'd (new verb) these are not complex or drastic things and frankly few of them have anything to do with Elle. What's strange is the absoluteness of it, in this day and age where being able to access the internet isn't too drastic even for a total of two minutes we haven't even had a ping on discord announcements from Elle saying "Sorry guys, internet down, dunno when i'm back, will reply when stuff's sorted IRL" or a single forum post despite him being able to pop onto discord. I just don't buy it really.

 

2 hours ago, Caid said:

Holy freakin' super crap.

Is this what the server has devolved into? Actually wait scratch that, maybe it's always been that way. I know from my previous experience it's always been "what we say go" and "my way or the highway" here. It's a carry over from Legacy and Prologue.

 

Let's break this down from what I can see.
>Player sees a ton of NPCs, does some head math and wonders just how a group can afford all these NPCs with the way NPC pricing is. Head math was indeed done. I've done the actual math and its visible in an actual public thread. Awaiting Elle's return to see how he justifies it.
>A staff member who is notorious for having a one-track mind says "we dont owe you an explanation", which basically means fuck off
>this irks the player, who pushes the question and tries to get transparency
>at some point, the staff slapped the player with a 72 hour ban, because he can. As Dankus, I, and a great many others have said, the 72hr ban was wholly and completely justified. Even I would have had no recourse if I were in the same position. Dankus did something stupid and continued to do so in a public channel after being told to stop. 72hr ban was fair game there.
>he takes the issue to discord, both Elle and Varen seemingly tell him to fuck off "politely"
>eventually he gets booted from discord and handed a permaban, but then its retconned to a 3 month ban. Incorrect. He is handed a ban from Discord (justifiable, i'm on a similar thing though I was given no choice in it really)

 

While McDankus can have some colorful language, that doesn't excuse the Staff's response. If you can't handle a few cuss words and banter, maybe you shouldn't be on the internet?

 

To me this sounds like an escalated situation where the staff has an agenda they want to see, and when someone questions said agenda they basically try to silence the player. It's quite obvious the Staff in question don't want to explain how Haven can afford over a hundred NPCs. Yes, over 100 NPCs. Only 83 of those are combatants and the rest are civilians / utility NPCs. Because they can't, because they are in bed with the Haven players and are too comfy to step-up. Though this is less a Varen issue and more an issue with a certain individual that just so happens to be Head Keeper.

 

Instead of giving a reason why haven can afford the salary of all the NPCs, or just admitting the truth, you tried to silence someone. You know what this sounds like?

 

This sounds like the fucking Bioware and Bethesda forums. Just STOP, before you become Stanry Woo.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, foogleman said:

... saying that a final decision can't be made because Elle is unavailable at the moment feels like a very poor excuse at this point, as well. We have all been patient enough.

It slaps of cowardice that Elle has magically disappeared because of this (allegedly due to being out of work) 

The screenshot are there, plenty of people were online, and danks will have access to what was said during the altercation in PM's. Elle is not the one who was banned here (sadly) it was dankus.

For elle to conveniently disappear at this point smells of staff trying to pull a loophole where by Elle appears either at the end of the 3 month ban or damn close to it. Its coming up to 1/3rd of the ban now and this is nothing short of being daft. 

It'll take less than five minutes to comment on here by Elle and I keep seeing him pop up on discord. Likely the US discord / forum equivilant of putting your head above the ramparts to see if that sniper is still there. 

Not only is this frankly immature display hampering any resolution to this problem, it also means Elle is shirking in his duties as Head storyteller and there being outstanding tickets because of it (I partly blame elle's inability to delegate for this) 

Sort yourselves out

Event completed

Participants were Timothy, Aziphael, Laelia and Mikturok

The gang fought their way through the Virmen den known as 'The Rat Trap' and were almost defeated by Snagtooth's entourage but were saved by Aziphale's quick skill with a bow.

Snagtooth was defeated and the spoils of his people were looted.

 

Furthermore the stockpiles of resources in clearly Human and Orc made chests were gathered up for as much as the group could carry and, upon leaving, these goods were returned to the good people of Haven where it was announced that the Virmen scourge was dealt with. I hope that those who participated get an increased 'rep' with Haven.

 

Thanks to all those that came!

((Event is starting now, late joiners whisper 'Timothy' in-game))

Staff answer to this please, its getting tiresome and frankly its putting a lot of RP on the backburner on the premise that Dragor -might- come back.

Answer now please

((A reminder folks that this event is on tomorrow, come give this type of RP a go on any hunter character ideas you may have stowed away in the back of your mind. Timothy's offering free mentoring to those who are new hunters that join these events.))

51 minutes ago, Greg said:

You needed to apologise for what you said to me Dascombe

 

10 minutes ago, Greg said:

I'm not requesting a formal apology. I'm telling the guy to grow up. 

Just now, Greg said:

@Sander it was PM'ed to Dasc, he didn't apologise for his form, so I brought it here to be discussed. His behavior in't helping the server to grow.  

I don't need to apologize for a campfire being spawned? This is hardly discussion and you aren't exactly the authority on server growth.

Were you this antagonistic before Ehk got killed?

1 minute ago, sander said:

Looks like this should've been a PM to Dasc tbh, and then an official private complaint if you couldn't sort it out like adults. You're both players who have 1 on 1 beef and your disagreement over a campfire (wtf) has zero impact on anyone else. The rest of the server doesn't need to know about your dirty underwear.

Poor form.

Disagree, I prefer stuff being publicly visible (admittedly when it's -important-). I mean I did ignore him in-game (which the rules state you should do) but then he took it to discord which was... full of more expletives than a McDankus rant... but yeah it is rather absurd that this all came about due to a campfire... but hey his character seems to have an unnatural obsession with being confrontational to Tim all the time so hey, each to their own.

2 minutes ago, Sevencix said:

maybe explaining what happened in the encounter would help us all, dascy and greggy

Tim sat down in a guild base made by EG and lit a campfire on what was a decaying ruined bit of shipwreck which frankly would have been damp and would have caused no problem.

Tim emoted unslinging his gun in order to polish it

Greg's character got angry because he clearly hadn't read the emote and demanded Tim not to point the gun at him.

Then his character started getting angry at a campfire on a damp wooden structure. Tim is ICly a survivalist and knows how to make such a campfire without damaging the wood.

Insults were traded ICly

Started getting accusations of being a sh*t hunter. 

Suggested a devilsaur hunt.

Wasn't too keen on it so promptly ignored him (ICly and OOCly)

1 minute ago, Greg said:

I mean I tried to include you in the RP sure Dascombe, and threw you a line so that you could involve yourself, but then you came at me with your whispers and insults.

I was RP'ing with Foogle, and you should've least have respected that.

 

I did respect it.

You started conversing with me, not the other way around.

1 minute ago, Greg said:

I don't wanna cause drama here, but this has to be said. Don't bring IC shit into OOC, and vice versa. We're all adults here, we shouldn't go around calling one another "insufferable c-word's", especially not if they're currently RP'ing with somebody else. That's just a dick move, as it instantly brings you out of your current RP so that you can get your head around why you've been called a c-word by some juvenile delinquent. 

I understand that Descombe is prone to these type of outbursts. But it ain't cute, it's just sad, and not helping our server population to grow. 

Stop it Descombe, grow up. 

 

 

Hi Greg. A few corrections to be made here:

Firstly I did not interrupt your RP in any way shape or form. I was sat emoting to myself (nothing to do with you) and you proceeded to incorrectly read an emote thinking it was targeting you (your fault there, not mine) and so I did not jump in on your RP encounter there. This is irksome considering you look for any given opportunity to be antagonistic towards me. You started complaining about a campfire.

If you are going to open up a thread like this don't finish it or even start it with something that disproves your entire remark and at least throw in something that is concise and had some thought thrown behind it rather than a single encounter. 

If you want to talk about server growth perhaps attend more than just a single hunter event?

 

My two copper on that I guess.

 

The soon to be announced new Haven troop armour?

 

Hi guys.

This thread has come about after some long standing criticism (which has resulted in the ban of a member of this community) about the logistics of Haven with a specific focus on its troop deployment and logistics.

The information used in this thread can be gleaned from the below google documents link which I spent the best part of a day compiling in direct violation of the server's fabricated "NO OOC AT ANY TIME" rule which people tell me exists but seemingly does not appear in the forums or any other capacity without a trace...

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M8D_BYrKNrFnVckSNu9RtZL17VZdQ_SSDJVmdwez3H8/edit?usp=sharing

 

Anyway... onto the chunky stuff.

We can see clearly from the above document that although Haven does not have 100+ troops as it constantly meme'd however a total of 83 combatant troops (correct at the time of writing) does make them one of the more powerful factions in the game currently accessible (possibly just below Kolai, Sotoras and the Zandalari trolls and -maybe- the pirates of the Atoll)

Shockingly this total of 83 troops comes to a total of -just- under 1999 CR, the Combat Rating used to judge NPC strength. I do not have Smoulderon's CR at hand but I am sure that it is significantly higher than what he managed but this is 14 times higher than the Tyrant Queen devilsaur who patrols SE Opej.

 

 

This also comes to a total of 83 rare weapons / armour used for these NPCs in terms of tokens. If the same rule is being applied to players this would double it to 166 rare tokens.

 

Furthermore to this these NPCs currently have a total of 8 bunk beds to live in at Haven's barracks. Given that the majority of housing in Haven is empty and available for players to rent (another failed initiative) rather than buy this means that unless Haven has been digging underground for the past 2-3 months to build a huge underground bunkhouse, these NPCs do not have anywhere to sleep.

This is in direct contrast with Drustgarde which has a dedicated bunkhouse for its guards and allows them somewhere to rest. "But what about Drustgarde's numbers" i hear you cry.

Don't worry

They're next.

But back to Haven. We have a huge number of troops here which, if mandatory conscription was employed and a militia made available from the current Haven Citizen numbers (71 of them) it would boost the total CR for Haven up to 2,425 at a minimum.

 

But what does this mean in its entirity?

Well we cannot make remarks on Haven troops being fed or paid as that would frankly be something IC that should not and cannot be made available to players (something I disagree with as its a GM'd faction but thats a story for another time) however a total of 79 of our troops here have no way to sleep and do not have their housing reflected.

This is odd considering this is a server which apparently hammers on and on about the 1:1 scale of it and the fact that numbers reflect what they are.

 

As a result i'd like to see one of the following happen:

 

1.) Haven troops are given appropriate and 1:1 per troop housing. This can be more bunkhouses, more tents, or cramming some hammocks into unusued buildings [PREFERABLE] as this bulks up Haven a bit more to reflect its IC numbers.

2.) Haven troops get angry and pissed off with their poor living conditions and either go on strike, rebel or simply quit [NOT PREFERABLE] as this may cause some upset in more ways than one but may be a good RP opportunity.

 

I've heard a few people talking now about Haven reaching an almost 'city status', frankly with these sort of numbers it should be if it was reflected in-game. During my tenure as builder I ensured time and time again that things were accounted for in terms of numbers and logistics and this led to some nice places that actually look like they accomodated the numbers they were made for.

 

 

 

 

 

On 5/29/2019 at 4:54 PM, Terra said:

This is still being discussed! I assure everyone it has not just been forgotten about!

Could we get something more than 'it is being discussed'? All the evidence available to us (IE: none) suggests this has been abandoned.

Doubly so when you consider Elle has dropped off the radar almost completely.

On 5/30/2019 at 6:52 PM, foogleman said:

As far as I know, several locations for this "invasion" had been put into a random number generator of sorts and then it was rolled which places on Opej would get hit by it. The fact that it hit the Grom'Goshar summit was just random.

You are also not the only one who was hit by this. This afternoon I helped Eg clear out the ship wreckage between Haven and Drustgarde of insanes, because he wants to build New New New Egtown there. Literally 10 minutes after we were done clearing it out, a server message popped up warning about "flying shadows in the sky" and a minute later, a whole bunch of those hostile NPCs were spawned all over the wreckage. So Eg's plans got cockblocked by this hostile invasion, too.

 

Thirdly, yeah I see you are salty. But I personally, I am excited! I like danger and I like when there is "stuff to do". Let's just gather up some allies and make an event to destroy the invaders.

 

Another point is... you are acting as if this was an attack on a guild base. It is not. The top of Grom'Goshar is not a guild base. The current Horde guild base is further down at the lumber mill, and the hostile NPCs are still far away from that. No attacks on that base have been made, so it's fine. At least in my book.

 

I don't know why you are reacting so salty about this. Five hours ago or so when I heard about this "event", I quickly logged in on Krazzix because I was worried about the lumber mill. But it was fine, no enemies no nothing. I then went further up to check out the summit and saw.. yeah alright, there is some hostile NPCs up at the old G'G ruins now. Whatever. That was literally my reaction to it. Just a *shrug* and a "Gotta find some people later to go clean up."

 

(On a side note, the hostility with calling Gruk a cuck etc.  was really unnecessary)

Firstly, I was informed by Eg that he complained about it and then it was moved, why is / was no such opportunity presented to MKV? Only difference was that we weren't around to actually object to the slapping of NPCs on guild territory. Eg's plans didn't get cockblocked by this hostile invasion because they haven't actually landed there.

Secondly, this isn't 'stuff to do', this is more mindless killing which frankly doesn't promote all that much interaction. It won't be spoken of as a gigantic battle, it won't contribute much to character development. It'll be another rockup, kill, loot, heal, log off.

The top of Grom'Goshar -is- a guild base. The peak of G'G has been considered guild base territory for ages and for it to suddenly change now smacks of rule change for the benefit of staff. Gruk still lives atop that peak in his spirit shack which was not damaged or destroyed by Smoulderon's attack.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 7:41 PM, CascadingPrism said:

I already responded to you in Discord DMs but since you made a public thread rather than putting it in Staff Contact, I'll reiterate my points and even point out some more things.

Firstly, fair. I didn't give a warning but that's because the plateau doesn't interfere with any actual property or endanger NPCs. If I spawned the monstrosities further down, where it would interfere with guild property, then it would call for a warning though. I specifically chose the spot when the wheeldecide landed on Grom'Goshar as to not interfere with guild operations but still give a sense of urgency. No NPCs or anything built has been harmed or will be harmed unless you consciously decide to bring orc children or something up there.

Secondly, also fair. I didn't know you'd spawn into that. If you were to be harmed, I'm sure Lang or I would help with your wounds and fatigue that might have been caused by it. I should have summoned you back to the base settlement.

Lastly, there is no nepotism going on here. The idea behind this was not to shit on Horde RP again but to give a sense of urgency to a small invasion without immediately harming anything. There is no Trailblazers nepotism going on here. If it were, I'd spawn it by Drustgarde near the camp. Like Foogle stated, there was a random number generator I picked after I learned of the bad timing with Eg's clearing of the shipwreck for New New New New Egtown.

For the sake of clarity, here is the screenshot of all the odds. It just so happens to be that Grom'Goshar was the one landed on.

If you cannot take on a threat on your own, try asking other players for assistance. I would also like to note that these NPCs will not respawn. I have manually turned the option off. This wasn't even supposed to last a day. If a force was mustered while you were gone, you wouldn't even know until one of the people among that force told you.

As for the cuck thing, I already apologized and stated that it was me taking that joke-y faction banter in LFRP a little too far.

Firstly that is not a random number generator, you've just provided a list of potential sites and no indication that it was randomly selected. Had you perhaps listed the landing sites in order in chat and did /roll 15 I would believe you but frankly you have had a bit of beef with G'G after it's become apparent your character has a personal vested interest in the peak on multiple fronts. A 1-in-fifteen chance is somewhat dubious I hope you'll understand.

Yes, I am aware that your character personally did not turn up (likely because you were DMing) and for that I retract my comment about feeding yourself events and apologize for it.

However the point still remains that this -is- guild territory and no warning was granted for such. I am still irked that this sort of event style is being applied as it contributes little or nothing to storytelling and simply provides another meaningless grind of assaulting invading forces which requires barely any thought process to be applied. Same people, same gang, same circumstances.

Furthermore there is little being offered to G'G regarding storytelling events that are capable for the guild to take down on their own which basically ends up forcing us to engage with characters who we don't necessarily have a want to engage with. Where's the low-tier stuff being provided rather than large invasion forces requiring big numbers to take down? This is just one of the reasons Horde RP is dwindling.

 

PS: The invasion -did- interrupt some RP- 

 

 

Hi guys

 

I've been somewhat close to patient over the past few weeks / months and what has hit the server. Some would perhaps even say 'diplomatic'

Today that patience tipped over the scales and I logged in to a guild member frantically wondering what the hell to do after finding the above.

 

X6 CR38 Blackwing Mutants 

X3 CR35 Blackwing Monstrostities

 

I will start with the following:

• Firstly I nearly logged into one of these things and would likely have been one-shotted by it relentlessly.
• Secondly, the guild Mork'Kar Vanguard recieved -NO- warning about this attack in direct violation of guild base attack rules.
• Thirdly there was no event notification about it, no rumour posted, not even a polite discord message to warn us of this.

 

The guild so far is comprised of three members of whom one is more or less inactive leaving two.

 

This is not only unreasonable, its unfair and downright cruel to do this to a guild trying to lift itself from the ashes having had its guild leader removed from the server.

 

I have come to understand that this was of course done by the GM Pallas who many of you know plays the character 'Tsolvia'. This raises very strong questions about this 'event' considering the staff member now apparently has free reign to waltz up to this place and the forces nessecary to overcome these threats and claim their loot.

 

This is a task rendered completely impossible by MKV alone and is frankly suspicious considering this comes straight after I open up a public [PROJECT] aiming to restore the area -AND- the fact that a huge chunk of the server had a rather large battle to clear the peak of an elemental invader already.

This is -NOT- how you revive Horde roleplay. This is how you -KILL- Horde roleplay. Though frankly this is likely already the aim of Pallas and has already become apparent after he bragged in LFRP about his character doing all of the Horde guild's quests for it:

Bumping this as its been a while

 

Location: Grom'Goshar Peak (Opej)

Players currently involved: Gruk / Treant

Type of project: Cultivation / Land Restoration

 

Quick project just to track current progress of both 'Treant' and 'Gruk' as they work to restore the land on Opej's highest peak after Smoulderon's escape obliterated most of it and left it with lingering signs of flame elemental damage.

Currently the main path the duo aim to go down is not so much to fully revert the damage done but rather to adapt to it by utilizing current plantlife which has grown hardy since the damage and taken on flame / heat resistant properties. Currently the duo have the following skills at their disposal:

 

• Gruk - Moderate herb lore / pyremaster.
• Treant - Is a treant. Proficient in druidic magic

 

Once again the duo do not intend to fully revert the peak back to what it once was but rather to adapt to its new situation. It is worth pointing out that Gruk intends to ward the peak as well so that the burning damages of the peak do not extend beyond it.

 

Where: Meet in Haven. Event is in 'The Rat Trap'

When: Sunday 2nd June 6pm server-time.

Who: Any race, any non-hostile (twilight hammer etc) faction, hunters only with the exception of up to 3 'warrior' RPers max and a single healer (priest / medic focus but others welcome!). Event is capped at 8 people. Reason for this is dungeon size, event manageability and ICly for the fact that fights will be in a confined area.

Event Type: Dungeon crawl

GM Assistance?: Optional. All we require is the boss in the 'Rat Trap' dungeon set up as well as any relevant DM kits in place.

 

After a small break in activity from the group known as the 'Opej Hunters', the whispers seemingly return.

The same faces, the same -types- of people, the same outcasts and gunslingers pick up the call. In the distance around various points of Opej deep beyond the jungle line a clarion call sounds from a huntsman's horn causing both animals to flee their ambush places and keen hunters to sniff the air and look up.

Rumour begins to circulate amongst the same circles that the esteemed 'mad' Baron of Opej seeks to call the hunters to arms once more to utterly and completely wipe out a foe thought to have been placated: the Virmen of Opej.

 

Deep within the den known as the 'Rat Trap', Baron West and his gang of hunter comrades reached their ruler Snaggletooth and forced him to bow to their skill and to no longer assault the fledgling town of Haven. It would seem that in recent weeks the disgusting creatures have not only broken their promise but also increased their numbers and the scale of their ferocity.

 

This calls for vengeance, an utter annihilation of the creatures. Much though it pains the Baron to bring death upon an entire species on Opej, the Virmen simply breed and consume far too fast for their own good and the greater good of the isle, encroaching upon the watering holes and grazing spots of many other wild beasts of Opej.

 

The call goes out once more for hunters to gather their arms and to bring their weapons be they spear or bow, axe or gun, to bare upon the foul creatures that threaten the balance of all things upon this isle.

 

((Hi folks. This is a sort of continuation of a previous event where Baron West and a group of Opej's initiate hunters breached the den of the Virmen to annihilate them but in fact came out with a promise from their leader to cease all future attacks on Haven. This was proven to be a brazen lie due to the increased movements towards the town and the vast increase of the creature's numbers. The plan is: no survivors. The Hunters of Opej are to go in and utterly exterminate every last one of the beasts for the greater good of the island as a whole.

Newcomers are welcome as are 'new rolls' on alts etc.))

 

 

 

So this thread has been up for more than 72 hrs, when can we expect a staff response to this or is it the game of be quiet and hope it simply glosses over? 

7 minutes ago, foogleman said:

If not, maybe let someone handle bans and other community-related stuff who has a tougher skin, more tolerance and more understanding for other people's feelings, someone that is good at listening and is more compassionate. Someone that doesn't sperg out into arrogant "don't like it, leave" responses because some guy is disagreeing with him.

We had someone that did.

That person wasn't taken seriously in their duties (and we're not talking exclusively  by players)

Addendum: top job to Lang for doing the survey, it's good to see someone taking a proactive stance towards community engagement and gauging the attitude towards how the server's ran, I feel like someone's carried the mantle of that document I linked above!

Hi guys.

 

Before I start this essay (yes, it sadly has to come to that) I would like to state a couple things for the record before I jump into this:

Firstly I write this as one of the people who possibly (others are welcome to contradict me here) knows Dragor / McDankus the longest even prior to him having even created Dragor Bloodfury so what I write in terms of him as a player I write from experience of having seen him developed as a person and an RPer going as far back as earlier servers such as Prologue and the various phases that followed. This may constitute as having bias towards him or possibly even against him, i'll leave you guys to be the judge of that.

Secondly I write this also having seen the fracas that occured in the LFRP Channel which incidentally should be re-named and a [Discussion] channel added in the game as literally no-one uses it for its intended and, ironically, metagamey purposes. I have however not seen what happened on discord due to being banned from the majority of discord channels.

Thirdly i'll be avoiding writing about the Haven NPC issue as this is something i've been investigating myself and, honestly, does not relate to the ban but is part of a deeper problem with US which requires its own thread which I may be writing when I get back from holiday on Tuesday

 

With all that having been said, lets start with Terra's official post, i'll colour code what I am referring to in the quote and my responses below

7 hours ago, Terra said:

Needless to say, every person has an individual opinion on the matter, but what follows is the… consensus… reached by staff.

McDankus' Fiasco - Official Staff Stance

The individual known as McDankus, player behind the character "Dragor Bloodfury", Warlord of the Doldrums Horde, has been banned from the server for three months, after which he can appeal to be unbanned, and will be talked to, to see if he has reflected upon the actions which brought this unto himself.

Next, we will review parts of the rules which he has broken. These all can be found in the proper post under "Server Information", in the forums, under the name of "Rules and Regulations", though we will do so by going to the end of it, where it directly states "Do's and Don'ts", in order to prevent what may constitute as different "headcanons", or way to perceive things.

• "Be respectful to one another".
• "Do not cross OOC and IC"
• "Do not exacerbate OOC Drama or willfully start it"
• "Keep discussion civil"

Now, to breach these points all at one, if we may, instead of going at them one by one. McDankus first expressed his doubts about Halfpoint Haven having more than 100+ NPCs. He pressed for an OOC clarification, at which point Elle stated classic catchphrases such as "You are not owed an OOC explanation." or "If you don't like it, there's an uninstall button."

After this, the discussion kept getting less and less civil (With elements being hostile towards non-staff that was using the entire topic to joke about, even) , so Elle issued a warning: "Stop the topic, or you will be banned for 72h". At this point one/some of the elements decided to, in fact, log out and cool down. Dankus, however, tried to keep talking about it, and was therefore banned for 72h from the game, so he could cool off.

 

Then, instead of deciding to leave for a while to calm himself, he continued to try to argue the thing on Discord. While I can not, as the time of writing this, recall exactly what transpired, he ended up kicked/banned from Discord too, without following the proper punishment procedure. By this point, -I- believe he was still on a 72h ban.

After being kicked out of Discord, however, he brought it to PM's, directly calling Elle a "petulant child". He also sought after Varen in PM's, trying to argue the case.

While, of course, I am not exactly privy to the discussion carried out in these, that (those?) insults and general behaviour is what earned him a permanent ban.

 

Later, due to some elements of staff discussing the situation, the ban was reduced from perma to a 3 month ban which he can appeal at a later date, as it has been stated.

 

From an IC PoV, Dragor seems to be gone off to deal with some private errands. No one knows where to, or for how long. Those with events/storylines/interactions pertaining to Dragor Bloodfury are greatly encouraged to contact the Keepers and try to work a solution, as they are innocents and should not suffer because of the ban.

 

I do hope you can forgive me for not being clearer, as I have written this in the middle of class, and thus can not make use of my full resources to dig up specific quotes and information.

Hopefully, when I get internet again I will be able to update the post and make it better. When I do so, I will make a post further below where I will also explain -what- I have updated.

First right off the bat we have Elle being incredibly antagonistic and this is by far from the first time he has done such either by being directly abrasive towards staff or simply passive aggressive / carefree about genuine qualms and issues with the server. Not only is this in itself in violation of the 'be respectful of each other' ethos / rule but frankly its a poor way to run a D&D campaign let alone a server with many more people. If anything this reinforces the attitude that the server is for a small closed circle of friends and that anyone else who is present is simply an inconvenience.

 

The issue with this particular point is rather clear cut with Frankus messaging Elle in private messages:

"Be respectful. At all times. This is not optional. Show respect to your fellow players, regardless of their faction or affiliation. We are all playing this game to enjoy it, and being rude or disrespectful to another player does not enhance anyone's enjoyment. If it enhances your own enjoyment, you undoubtedly do not belong on this server. Being respectful is easy enough if you think about it. Even players that you dislike or seem unable to get along with can be treated with respect. When all else fails, the ignore filter is in place for a reason." - UNKNOWN SHORES RULES

This rule is quite clear cut and simple. If Frankus was being abrasive in a private message: ignore him? It's really not that difficult to block someone on discord or even ignore someone in-game which is not against the rules contrary to what many seem to be under the delusion of. So for this to be the primary reason for the ban is frankly absurd and shows that rather than deal with the problem this is a case of a revenge ban for something harkening back quite a long time, it is quite clear that both Varen and Elle have members of the community they have no time for and consider pests regardless of what they do / don't bring to the community.

 

It is worth pointing out on this particular issue that this decision came after it came to my attention that the same permanant ban was also being considered for myself especially considering i've had no official warnings logged or being informed of except for the point where I was banned from discord for disrespectful language.

The actual quote I got off the member of staff (i'll let you point the dots together here) is:

I know, this isn't about me, this is about Dankus' ban. But Dankus' ban, problematic though it is, is simply a symptom of a much larger disease currently lurking on Unknown Shores and manifests itself in the following attitudes:

"Our way or the highway"

"If you don't like it there's an uninstall button"

It is highly hypocritical for members of staff to demand respect from a playerbase whilst it is unable to grant that very same respect back. And these aren't just isolated cases. For a community that has been around as long as this one, a lot of the -same- issues come up that frankly aren't looked into or solved but rather the names are replaced. Do we start calling Elle 'Zarquon'?

The sneakyness as well is highly questionable. I've been considered for a permanant ban on the basis that allegedly five people have contacted Varen complaining that myself and Dankus returned to the server following our hiatus. If you don't want memes made about you then stop doing absurd petty stuff like this which would send IMGUR going crazy with the amount of shoppable memes from this sort of material.

 

 

6 hours ago, Greg said:

Still though 3 months is too long, that completely ostracizes Dankus from the community, which he has very much positively contributed to.

And then making him beg, after those three months... Weak. 

It may come as a surprise to some but I don't actually think Dankus should be unbanned.

What he did was daft, in violation of the rules and should be punished. But that's what we all saw and witnessed and not this magical backlog of issues that either weren't logged, cannot be proven or are completely arbitrarily conjured from fictional mindsets.

I'd honestly say a 5-12 day ban for it and increasing that for repeated offenses and it culminating in a 3-strikes-and-you're-out.

The begging afterwards for an apology and a "Yes I know I did wrong" smacks of primary school (or elementary school for some people) attitudes to enforcing power roles. There's absolutely no need for this other than to fuel egos from the demanding party.

 

5 hours ago, Greg said:

I was taught to always treat others, as you yourself would like to be treated. It's a pretty common lesson in fact, I imagine Elle was taught it too. 

"You are not owed an OOC explanation." or "If you don't like it, there's an uninstall button." 

That is a disrespect shown by Elle to Dankus, in my opinion at this moment Elle welcomed any disrespect (probably knowingly.. I mean Bloodfury it's in the title.) that came from Dankus.

This is not a good enough reason for a permanent ban.

Agreed. As mentioned previously respect is a two way road not a one-way highstreet.

 

 

5 hours ago, sander said:

The only thing I don't like is that there weren't any proper warnings given. Yes people can be dicks, but why let things escalate to the point of a 3 month ban straight away? Warnings are the perfect solution to give people a chance to change their behaviour, plus you have an actual history you can point to when dishing out the serious ban hammer. And I'm talking actual official warnings that are logged with screenshots on a person's file (preferably a publically accessible file), not a single message in an OOC chat in-game. 

It would avoid big drama, either because the offending player changes their behaviour or because they keep pushing and get banned, at which point you can say "well we did warn him, just look at these logs; he already had 3 chances to change but didn't". Nobody would kick up a fuss about that, it would seem fair. Instead you're left with this; where a big dramatic statement has to be made and players are up in arms with disagreement.

Honestly I would suggest letting Frankie return with a final strike official warning; if he gets rude again he's out. 

Agree wholeheartedly. This harks back to the issue of things not being logged and there being no paper trail. Honestly I would even suggest a publically viewable 'WALL OF SHAME' on the forums where warnings and bans are issued along with the reasons / evidence for just to players are aware and all the cloak-and-dagger nonsense can be avoided. Transparency works wonders.

 

 

3 hours ago, Spoon said:

Firstly let me say that I was not online that night but I've been following what has happened. 

It seems to me like both parties are to blame, statements like "there's an uninstall button." sound really unprofessional and are bound to provoke players. It's easy to bait people into a heated discussion and then wave your authority to depict them however you want. Imo both parties acted irrationally and the permanent ban seems part of those irrational decisions.
I've also known Dragor for a while and he was the reason I joined this server so I'm trying not to be biased. But while looking into this debacle I noticed he's been on Shores for some time and I feel it's unproductive and a waste to over-punish a frequent RPer (and a good one at that) for such an indecisive situation. 

 

For a server with such a low and dwindling population its not only doing very little advertising but its also not very keen on keeping or retaining players because, and this is shouted from the rooftops on an almost daily basis, those who manage and run are happy and confident with what is happening in their own circle(s) and couldn't care less what is happening outside.

 

 

I'd like to just wrap this short essay with the following.

Yes a server has its problems, that in itself isn't a problem. There's an old saying:

 

"Getting stuck is ok. Staying stuck isn't"

And whilst Unknown Shores is not Epilogue, Prologue, Tales, Wake or any of the other servers that came before it carries not only the same mantle but also more or less the same community.

And time and time again the same issues crop up with different people under different usernames but we consistently fail to learn and adapt to past mistakes.

 

Here is a small challange not just to staff but players as well:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dvzA9w__5PKEBcrfPdEOPZkqOswtSDz-0pyq1e_UKWk/edit

 

This link is to a guide I compiled over 6 months ago, half a year. A lot has changed in terms of the land we RP in, factions rise and fall but problems remain the same. Have a look down that list and take a note of what problems remain and what problems have been solved, it'll be somewhat of an eye opener.

I love this place, I really do, but it needs to see some change before it goes down the same route as past servers.

((Event in 30 minutes folks! Free food for those attending!))

((A reminder that this event is on tomorrow!))