Antioch

I will just add my two cents on the matter as I see it's kicked up some dust. While I would be inclined to agree that McDaknus's behavior was inappropriate, I would like to point out that the Head Keeper's response on the whole matter is just downright unacceptable. "My way or the high way" is just such self-entitled, venomous and childish that is beyond my words. Recently I quit my position as a Keeper on the staff, and I feel this is a great opportunity to shed some light on the situation, as it has some similarities to what happened here.

I made an inquiry with Elle about a certain thing I wished to do with the Zandalari trolls, mainly use the newly accessible .wmo objects to give them a ship, as per their lore they arrived into the Doldrums with a fleet, and Zandalari are known as strong sailors. Elle rejected it, and when I supplied logical arguments as to why he should give it some consideration I was given the reply "You heard me, no." At this point in the conversation it broke down to the lack of respect Elle has when speaking to people. Being the Head Keeper does not mean you get to talk however you want, or be uncivil in a conversation that is about...well anything really. Bottom line I told Elle that I will not be able to work with him if he can not speak respectfully and not treat me like an underling. The response I got was "There's the door" so I simply left.

The point I am trying to make here is that both incidents reveal a much deeper rooted problem. We've all seen the fate of servers where the gap between staff and the players is too wide. I don't believe the stance "My way of the high way" should be acceptable from any staff member, especially one of high rank. It sends a very bad message about the server as a whole and the staff team that you represent. The whole situation above is too complicated for me to get into and I feel it has already been chewed out enough. I simply believe that the root of this problem is one individual's inflated ego and that this entire situation could have been resolved much differently without pointless dust kicked up everywhere. 

The Skittering Horror of Opej

It has been some time since new fauna has appeared on Opej. Many new predators run through the teeming jungle in search of pray. Yet few are as sinister as Venomfang. A vile spider broodmother that has set her nest up in a cave high in the mountains of Opej she spins her wicked webs through the forest and unleashes her venomous brood upon unsuspecting animals and travelers alike. Rumor has it she hails from an old Nerubian lineage and could perhaps even be sentient. One thing is certain: Her venom is the elixir of death itself and would be desired by many alchemist and magicians. Rumor also has it she has made quite an impressive hoard of items in her cave from the unwary adventurers. 

The ground of Opej shakes with a new presence. A horrific, red scaled hydra has made its nest shortly off the shoreline and its brood has already begun to infest the waters. Venturing through the coast has become more and more dangerous, and many travelers have been found missing, their half-devoured corpses washing up on the shore some distance away from the hydra's nest. If nothing is done soon, the beast and its vile spawn may overtake the waters around Opej'nor entirely.

Will anyone amount to the task of slaying the mighty beast? Time will tell. For now, Typhon's tyrannical reign over the Northen coasts of Opej'nor has begun.

This is EXACTLY why I posted this thread. These are some amazing and creative ideas and I will see about making some, if not all of them happen. I advise everyone to keep stuff like this coming.

17 minutes ago, AlexV said:

Sotoras needs to be accessible again... it's not unknown shoreS if you can only RP on 2 isles, out of which you'll get kicked out of one by elves.

 

As for plots I want to see more stuff like Wolfram. There aren't really random, believable characters out in the world. Some wizard that's doing X thing, this explorer, that hunter, apart from I'kuylan it feels like no NPC is important.

I support all of this. Something along those lines is in the works.

8 hours ago, McDankus said:

Honestly the main issue that needs to be addressed is staff hiring. Literally most of the feedback goes back to staff hiring and the lack of ability to do things. People have already criticized the lack of plots going on in places, for example it seems Menhris has the main plot going on. The only plot that was going on Opej was Fzhuzhem but that eventually came to a quick close due to Vykax OOC schedule (Which I understand). 

 

Caid answered this question more or less but this is a progressive server. The people who have been here the longest and only have one goal are going to be the most progressed. It really is that simple. If you have questions about how Menhirs got to where it is, I would be more than happy to answer them as I (as a player) made most of that possible. Staff hiring I agree on, however, one thing to note is that it is not a position given lightly. With great power comes great responsibility, and I understand the team for questioning people's ability to handle said responsibility. 

8 hours ago, McDankus said:

This brings me to another point on staff hiring. There seems to be a severe lack of Keepers/active staff to help keep things flowing. Random encounters and roleplay are great but it's slowed down heavily and more staff need to be hired on both EU and US timezones. The issue with this is the selective nature of higher staff when choosing people. According to Varen they won't hire people that suit -their- image of the server even though they are perfectly qualified for it? This starts to make the staff look quite shady in how they do things, selectively hiring who they please. In Varens own words he said he had a list of people he wants to hire, to the public that seems like he wants to hire his friends and therefore they get priority over other people who have just as much qualifications?

I believe what Varen meant can be explained in my ^ post up there. Perfectly qualified in this case is about keeping a level head when things get rough and having the patience to hear everyone out. My own two cents.

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Echoes of Legacy start to come back here, where higher staff make decisions that look quite sketchy, especially when it comes to hiring certain individuals and accepting feedback. When I see a number of critiques and criticisms, it's struck off as whining or complaining, to the point where some staff feel as if they're being targeted or bullied. This leads me to believe that some members of staff simply cannot accept the criticism required to be taken for their role, and something needs to be done about it.

Staff handling and communication is also a major problem. We've had events retconned or potential plots dismissed oocly because there's such a lack of logging done by higher staff to the point where it becomes motivation breaking. It shouldn't get to the point where players don't want to pursue anything over fear of stuff being retconned due to staffs ooc miscommunication. This frustrates many because it seems the storylines that members of staff are closely tied with seem to have barely any issues (save for one recent issue which was due to an event not being logged after a long hour dungeon crawling spree due to IRL fatigue). 

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One thing to note is that being stuck in the past will accomplish us nothing. Why don't we look to improve the future instead? Dragging old complaints, old things done, yeah it can be done to make a point. But we're all human, we all make mistakes. Live and let live. As can be seen from the threads I am posting I am trying hard to get that "concerns being dismissed as crying etc" factor removed, so we can all sit down and have a nice conversation about the things that bother us. I don't think bringing it up again will be constructive.

I am not here to point fingers or blame, but there are two factors in the case you pointed out. The first being that it wasn't due to an unlogged event, it was due to a lore secret. Only certain members of the staff are privy to certain information, such as the nature and Origin of the core and so on. Could it have been better explained? Yes. Should there be more lore available for keepers so they can run content? Yes and I am working on that. Should the Keeper in question have asked said loremasters before running the event it is alright? Also yes. When I became staff I did nothing for a few days other than get informed on stuff and go through old logs because I wanted to avoid exactly something like that. There's two sides to every coin and story. This one is no different. 

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These issues are where accusations of nepotism and such come from. The fact that general players have issues getting events or getting stuff done, and retcons due to failed logs, but then people with staff chars seem to be hunky dorey with getting stuff done? Even so, I feel like there's an issue with staff failing to step away from major plots or moderate themselves in RP scenarios. Yes, everyone is allowed to have fun, but when we see staff characters having close ties with story lines that they OOCly know lore of, it raises eyebrows. In short; Don't complain about nepotism accusations when you closely affiliate your character with story line plots like that. There's a reason staff on Legacy stepped away from shit like this when they were hired. 

We've been in familiar waters before on Legacy, and we'd rather not have it get to the point where staff have a meltdown and fuck us all. The frustrating fact is that a good deal of these issues -HAVE- been raised before and been dismissed, but now they're being addressed when plenty of damage has already been done.

Caid answered this concern pretty well. Legacy used to have up to 200 players at a time online at peak hours. Its older incarnations at least 50. We have half of that at the best of times. Its also demotivating to lay out a story for everyone else why you stick to the sidelines. I for one have not seen a single staff character that has been overtuned, overpowered or overdone. If anything, other players have taken the spotlight numerous times, which is how things should be. If you have examples of what you are saying, I would be glad to hear it. Be concrete and give names and examples and I would happily go over them. Otherwise it's hearsay. 

4 hours ago, Varen said:

How we hire people: Every time an application is posted, we make a temporary staff channel to discuss it. The thread is linked, and we talk with the entire staff point per point on who this person is, what would it contribute, or which problems could they bring. We look into what they've been saying and doing in game and in discord. After the initial discussion is solved and if we don't find something that'd outright deny it (Has yet to happen, fyi), we make a new channel in discord with staff and this person. We proceed to interview them, ask questions, and keep speaking back and forth with them. 
Eventually we make a decision, and said decision is communicated to the applicant.

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I think people skimmed over this part of Varen's reply so I will just put it out there again. 

4 hours ago, Varen said:

Nowhere in that "Varen's personal list" comes into factor. It is true I have a list of people I want to hire, because I look at the server, the community, and I see some people who shine through. They're not my friends, or family, just people I look at and see "Damn they're good at RP and they are cool to be around". There're no "Limited slots to fill" on staff where "Priority" would apply.. They know who they are because I went up to them and said "hey, why don't you apply? You'd probably do good". The process would be the same. The interview, the whole staff discussion. It's not up to just me.

We haven't refused anyone who was "perfectly qualified" for the job. Being "perfectly qualified" includes but is not limited to: Providing quality roleplay, following the server actively, being able to work with the staff we have, not being prone to punishment in game or on discord, having the ability of handling the requirements of the position at hand (tickets for helpers, etcetera).
 

So far, we've had very little in terms of feedback on these forums. Memes on discord and jokes, surely, we've had a lot of those. 
When it comes to proper, structured feedback, we've had ones related to systems and the RPG, and ones that weren't suited for public complaints. The first were / are being considered, the latter were all answered so far. We had cases of a few that went in public that were then moved in private, and answered there, due to wild inaccuracies of claims / claims repeated that were already answered, whose answer was ignored and put in public for.. Nothing more than having to repeat the very same answers, but this time, by publicising the roleplay around it for everyone to know.

 

We had two such cases:
-The Gyreworm
-The demon cave
Both times this was done by staff who had just started work as a Keeper and had not inquired for the state of the world, or did not have access to the lore required to properly portray those terms due to, pretty much, not having been given the right rank on the forums.
The missing logging you're speaking of was related to the event having ended a mere few hours before, and the DM going to sleep immediately after. Had the DM at hand been keeping up with the story, they'd know to refeer to said person before touching that area. Again, new people, growing pains of learning to work together.

 

I can answer the bit that involves my experience:
My character has repeatedly lost more and more, to the point where all they have is themselves, some resources, and another person around.
A character that was involved naturally through RP, and the fact the guild master of the guild I joined to -just make some mystic stuff with- left things on my lap to handle.
Now I don't seek out that roleplay, but if it happens, it happens, and I won't be pushing my character away from it "OOCly" to avoid it. I'll stop being involved with the staff section of it, and leave it to others to handle.

Other staff members can speak for themselves, but I believe that there's not a single one of them who would touch a story they're involved with unless it's absolutely necessary to do so, and if they do, there's the rest of the staff to keep an eye on them. And this is one of the things I look for, when hiring people. Being able to be objective in such matters.

2 hours ago, Dascombe said:

 - CENSORSHIP BY ANTIOCH -

Onto the main points though:

 

#1 You mention the Gyreworm and demon cave (focusing more on the former than the latter here as the demon cave is a diff kettle of fish) why is it that the staff involved in these cases were not allowed to view the event logs relevant to them?

They were. They didn't bother to do so. The log for the cave was non-existant because the event was stupidly log and draining and it would be sadistic to ask the DM to LOG it after having evented for over 5 hours.

How exactly are newly-promoted Keepers able to do anything if they cannot review the area they are looking to do an event? Interestingly in the case of the former not only is the Gyreworm lore-wise a creature from Deepholme (something you contradicted both ICly and OOCly, not so bothered about the former but the latter just shows ignorance of lore) but also this event was discussed quite a while ago and there not only was no mention from the GM in question (understandable given you don't seem to allow them full lore access?) but also this event was apparently not logged properly otherwise you should have been able to review it and flag up the fact that this GM had mistakenly yet correctly labelled the Gyreworm as being a creature of the elements.

I am proposing and working on a quick update system, less tedious than full logs that will allow all of the staff to see updates real-time of what was done in the game to prevent things like this from happening again. Once more: Past is the past, lets improve the present. 

Now you may be thinking i'm blowing this drastically out of proportion, and in any other given circumstance you would be right, however we were looking to revive this creature (a quest given to us by a GM) and the fact that it went from a creature of the Elemental plane to a construct of Highborn creation (correct me if i'm wrong here, reading the conversation logs we had) -just- as we were turning up to investigate the creature's lair smacks of suspicion... especially given that our guild looking to do such has no grasp of Highborn magics yet has a number of shaman in it, this lore 180 pretty much puts us in a position where we are forced to negotiate with another guild from a weak standpoint. 

The Gyreworm was a part of the Original server lore. Before a single player stepped foot on the server. It was in the alpha, and it was always intended to be what it is. This misscomunnication was due to ...well, lack of communication. The keeper had no way to immediately know the truth and he didn't ask and wait for a reply (which I know can be tedious when you want to make content for players)

#2 We clearly have drastically different ideas of what constitutes a good member of staff on the basis of the following:

We haven't refused anyone who was "perfectly qualified" for the job. Being "perfectly qualified" includes but is not limited to: Providing quality roleplay, following the server actively, being able to work with the staff we have, not being prone to punishment in game or on discord, having the ability of handling the requirements of the position at hand (tickets for helpers, etcetera).

(I get the 'not limited' to bit here provides you with a comeback but lets deal with what you've provided for now)

I'll use myself as an example here and i'm going to try to be modest here and state things from a factual point of view:

Providing good quality roleplay: I have (had) a total of 5 characters on US consisting of Baron West (Hunter), Hobo (Hobo), Grettik (Archaeologist), Dascombe (Kul'Tiran) and Gruk (Orc Pyremaster)

Out of those five, there is one in which I didn't really RP with many people and that is my namesake 'Dascombe' (though I RP'd with Cudn quite a bit on him), I'm sure quite a few people would vouch for that fact that on each one of these I have been participating in quite a few plots to the servers and taking steps back on frequent occasions in order to allow other players to participate in a number of facets. Nothing I hate more than IC 'spotlight' hoggers and people standing by as voiceless guards in meetings (tried to avoid that where humanly possible)

So i've provided quality roleplay. I think we can both agree that I followed the server actively as I post frequently on discord, I am one of the rare creatures known as 'forum users' and I have quite an active in-game presence. 

Working with the staff you have? Am curious as to how this is a basis for an application considering to 'work' with the staff you have you must surely already be a member of staff within that team? I would appreciate some further elaboration on this point as it seems rather circular in it's logic. (Observation, not a criticism)

Not being prone to punishment in-game or on discord. I'm sure in this circumstance I have been handed a total of 1 (one) discord mutes and well, it is strange as on the basis of it many others should also have (continuing after being told to 'stop') i've had no in-game bans, no kicks off discord, no other warnings formal or informal. It appears to, rather strangely, be on the basis of past behavior on other servers which, considering who we actually have playing on the server, sounds a bit odd especially considering you did not want people talking about past members of previous servers in a negative light you are more than happy to do so when it comes to an application process?

Regardless I have moved on since then and acknowledge the points (odd that they are) levied against me.

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Personally I liked your proposals when I read them and I thought the server could benefit from it. I know we've had our differences but I've always talked about you as someone who is great at creating his own content and gettings things going. I was really frustrated when you left because you were one of the few players left remaining who had done so. I can not give an answer to this as I was not staff at a time, but I personally disagree with what has been decided. I believe the main issue is "attitude problems", and I will refer to my ^ post about staff being cautious about whom they allow to have power in the game. Just my take on the matter.

2 hours ago, Dascombe said:

 

For example if I became staff I would either not do events for Grom'Goshar in their entirety (going so far as to not interact with the members completely on a GM account) or I would revoke Gruk's position as an officer in that guild (Easy: "I need time to meditate and commune with the elements"). In this same example I would also take a few minutes to look at events I DM and think

"Might this some how trace itself's back to the guild in which I am an officer? Does this offer that guild any benefits directly or indirectly?"

 

- MORE CENSORSHIP BY ANTIOCH-

 

PS: Sorry to hear about Eamane and the guild thing, honestly I tried to intervene on Grettik to get you some IC work that your character archtype would have enjoyed but was waiting for quite a while regarding the ruins acquisition. There's only so much work an explorer can give when everywhere has been explored in-game

- Cleaned thread from any implications of personal jabs. Please keep it civil and on the topic-

Hello, fellow community members!

Lately I have seen a lot of complaints about various issues on the server, mainly regarding staff, management, the RPG system and so forth. However w have to remember that no one is perfect, people make mistakes, even when they are pointed out. Its important to understand that the manner in which we offer our feedback and suggestions is just as important, if not more, than the feedback itself. Hence why I am making this thread. To allow people with genuine concerns to post them in a readable format and not get lost within discord spam. Post the things that bother your about what has been done so far, or what makes your experience on the server possibly not as enjoyable as it could be. 

This thread will be very heavily moderated. Be respectful, concise, to the point and avoid derailing.

[Disclaimer] This thread is not endorsed by the staff team as a whole. I am posting this as a concerned player that is seeing large rifts in the community and wish to see them mended. I will personally respond to any concerns that I can address, but it is up to the rest of the Staff team to decide if they wish to partake in the discussion or not.

In an attempt to start resolving issues cropping up within the server population about a large number of things, I am creating this thread as a public forum of discussion for players to bring up issues and seek for answers how they were handled. You suspect something hasn't been done correctly? Have an issue you wish to bring up? Post it here. To clarify, this is -NOT- a feedback gathering thread. There is a different thread for that. This is for public questions you believe are ignored, unanswered or are kept to a close group: Example - How does the death system work? Why was there a retcon of X event? And so forth. I believe improving communications will be the first step in all of us enjoying being on the server a lot more.

I will be heavily moderating this thread myself: Be respectful, concise and commonsensical about your points. The more convoluted the question the more difficult the answer will be.

[Disclaimer] This thread is not endorsed by the staff team as a whole. It is a part of my own personal effort to start bringing the community back together. Issues that I can personally address I will, for matters that I am not involved with it is up to the other members of the Staff team to decide if they will partake or not.

Hello Dolrumeers,

This thread is designed to allow players to brainstorm what they would like to see more of in the world. And I am not talking on a general basis but a concrete thing. Have a story or event idea that you think would be interesting but don't want to DM it yourself? Post ideas, and a keeper will talk to you about it. At the end of the day the people on the staff are only humans and are bound to run out of fresh ideas down the line. Which is why I think input like this could be beneficial to the server as a whole.

[Disclaimer] For the moment this is not a post endorsed by the entire staff team, just my own personal take on the matter. If you have ideas that you think could contribute to the server I'd be more than happy to hear them out and see what we can do. You can either submit a freeform in the thread or just PM me and we can discuss it if you don't wish for anything to be spoiled!

2 hours ago, Nostra said:

Do you mind if I move this to journals instead? The Sciptorium is for DM work. 

Not at all. I asked Vrahn and he said I could place it here. Move it where it belongs.

Day 2:

[This will be a series of posts done of my own RP in the deathzone. As much as for my own peace of mind to give the character some finality, also in an attempt to use the deadzone which we have. Who knows? She may learn something along the way.]

Icath'ya awoke in a dark and desperate place, with nothing but the dead chill of the grave to keep her company. The pain tied to her demise still lingered closely to her soul, wracking her essence with every moment, yet she would not be denied. The last Scion of House Asha'thiel would not fall into death's clutches so easily. This... was merely a new journey, and a new opportunity to learn more and expand her presence of mind. Thus, her path through the land of bones began.

I want to see some magic items as rewards as well. There's no rules against using magic

Is another House guild really the best you could do in a setting so different such as the one in Unkonw shores? Not to be rude or anything, but personally I think it's a bit out of place in the current setting.

I think you can consider Icath'ya to be in-line with the Magistrix quite a lot. Call it a semi-pledge, I'd like to leave it to IC but I am interested.

I actually agree with Foogleman, so just seconding his opinion here. In addition: I believe that next to the DM's there has to be people who are looking at the large scale of things, the big events shifting the story of the server, as well as incorporating the smaller events into the big picture. If there is such a team already, disregard this. In addition, I think it would be helpful to let us know exactly which people are on "The Council" as well as what their assignments are, so we know who to turn to for what.