Sevencix Starts a Debate, Comedically Enough About a Server's Issues When He's Said to Not Be Good at Handling Those

[Sevencix 11]

Hello, international champion in bad role-playing here.

So I've returned to play on Unknown Shores for a week now, simply because I didn't feel like finding a phase on RPH and my own server is down at the moment. This isn't to shit on Unknown Shores, nothing about this thread is no matter how much some "epic memesters xd" will try to bend it into a contest about calling staff retarded in the most creative way. But, if Unknown Shores wasn't my only choice, I wouldn't really be here or have started here again.

So I'd like to help. By offering suggestions and opening what could become a friendly debate, you know, before people start to flex their egos.

I'll divide this thread up in chapters, because I want to be an author, so might as well roll with that theme. And for good measure enjoy some creative titles of said chapters.

Thanks for the attention.

Chapter I: New Beginnings and Why They Suck Here

The most observant of those on this server will notice I already brought this up. And while Silver-Eye has of this thread been fucking flexed on by a big Ancient Black Dragon from Forgotten Realms(which somehow uses fire instead of acid), this is more about the starting zone. Entering the zone will tell you two things. One, which is in contrast to the nature of this thread, pretty fucking amazing. It shows you how the server works, how the system works, how to give coins to a jew and how to pick out your targets for an epic victory royal gank. But, on the other hand, you're welcomed into a single-player experience. There's nobody around. That may be a negative impact, because places such as Role-Playing Heaven have a spawn filled up with people spamming unfunny 4chan memes. But there's people.

A second issue is also the outdated Oblivion reference that allows you options which can completely rip you off. Right now, you can choose to be a "soldier" and gain 90 combat EXP. 90 COMBAT EXP. Other options give you profession increases and whatnot, which is purely, logically better options. That is, if you know that much of the system. So right off the bat, this needs to change, quickly.

The next part of the issue here is the fact that you can go to ports and whatnot around the little world, but... Nearly nobody resides around them. Once again, you'll be met with a complete single-player experience. Since nobody plays enough near these docks and landings. So unless they know the damn gathering system, they'll wander off and log off. That's it. You've lost a potential player. End of the line. Only way to prevent this is for the player to be in the Discord and be actively engaged enough to ask for help on where to go. And that'll most likely be Menhirs, but I'll return to that in another chapter.

Summed up, y'all need to have an adaptive starting experience. It needs to adapt to the changes, so make a flexible spawn. What you have right here with NPCs needs to be easily changed for future things to be implemented. And you NEED to expand that adaption to your spawn locations from the captain NPC. It needs to teleport people where there's active players.

A little suggestion was made by me earlier, which can be found here. I tried to update the starting "jobs", what your character was and all that.

Chapter II: Production of Mankind and Why it Needs to Change

Perhaps the thing that upsets me the most with Unknown Shores is the damn productivity and how heavy an impact it has. As it stands, all there is to collecting resources, building a cool ass church or something, is grinding and time. You need to get the materials, which is based on chance and finding just the right zone, it's based on gray materials which cannot be focused with productivity. I repeat. I can literally not focus on mining stone instead of like, iron or hecking thorium. Which should probably be fixed, since it has infuriated a local tower-builder, from what I've heard. And apparently you can trade gemstones for stone and hardwood? I think? And after collecting the materials, you'll need the proper architecture level - AND THEN, THE PRODUCTIVITY TO MAKE SOMETHING. In this process productivity is linked to everything. Y'all really need to cut down on that shit, since right now I get three productivity a day and I'm linked to that productivity. Because there's no people around.

I understand this system is handled for having more people working in it, but the state of truth is that there isn't. There's not enough players. There's me here in Port Drustgarde(sometimes with company but that'll pick up post-holidays) and then there's Menhirs. There's nobody else around, an economy can't work like that. So if you want the last people to not just call it quits because they're tired to productivity, you have a few options.

1) Increase gain of productivity throughout the day.
2) Make productivity able to be increased through an item or resting in a bedroll or something.
3) Make productivity a little less important, by say making gathering only take 1 or 2 productivity per tick instead of 3.

Now I'd like to say these changes, if applied, should be temporary. Since they're not fit at all for a larger playerbase, should Unknown Shores ever attain that again, and should be lowered if that'll be the case. Do not dismiss this suggestion as "the economy will become fucked", it won't. Not for our current playerbase, which you really should focus on.

Chaper III: The Absence of Gods, and the Question That Asks; "Are We Alone?"

This ain't an insult. I promise you that from the depths of my heart. But Y'ALL ARE LIKE, FOUR ADMINISTRATORS OR COUNCIL MEMBERS AND WHATEVER, AND I ONLY EVER SEE VAREN AROUND. And don't get me wrong, I've tried to get my hands on some sweet Varen exclusive nudes for my shrine to him, but so far that hasn't been a possibility.

I can get not playing on your own server, truly. But the fact that I never, ever seen the other three do anything that impacts me to my knowledge, makes me think a bit less of the three others when it comes to authority. What do you do? What are you scheming? Why are you in the position you're in? There's so many questions which I don't know the answers for, and I'd be willing to bargain that many others don't either. Give us some life signs my dudes, post in general chat, post some memes, damn even just log on and make a wacky .announce every now and then. Just show us your presence, because right now you're barely visible to us.

Y'all still ain't getting no shrine dedicated to you, that rights belongs to and will always belong to Varen.

Chapter IV: The Law Which Dictates the Physical Realm, a System of Possibilities

So you've a pretty advanced system for combat, I'll say that. Good job, if I had the same knowledge and dedication as you had, I'd probably make my own system, alas I don't. And I am also wishing for the sweet embrace of the apocalypse so that I may finally rest, so I'll probably never get around to it. The ambition though, blinds something that I wish it wouldn't. Overview.

The system's abilities are kind of... Repetitive. And boring. Let me give you an example.

You're a warlock. You're a master of unholy magic, you've bent it to your will - and for good too, fuck it. You're a nineteen years old human female warlock, chaotic good. Let's roll with that. Upon becoming a warlock, you gain SPECIAL CLASS ABILITIES. Five spells, five powerful spells that can impact your enemies at high velocity and heresy. Your choices are...

Curse of Exhaustion. Your enemy's next attempt to move or flee will FAIL! And then-... Wait, there's nothing more...? Uhm. Right, sure-- wait this is just Terrify but without the essence... Right, there'll be better choices!
Curse of Agony. You inflict your target with such agony that you deal DAMAGE OVER TIME, SCALING WITH YOUR WILLPOWER- wait this is just corroding magic... W-Well, the more aggressive sounding spells will surely be more interesting!
CHAOS BOLT! YOU DEAL DAMAGE, MADE BY FELFIRE TO AN ENEMY!-- wait is that it, uhm this is like.......... all other attack spells... huh...
FEL ARMOUR! YES, I CAN SHIELD MYSELF WITH MY UNHOLY POWERS, WHAT AN ABILITY! It also heals me, great! Oh, of course I can't use Divine spells, that makes sense! Wow, this spell has a lot to offer, surely the last one will be--
shadow bolt. you deal damage.

So you'll spot a pattern here. There's no creativity in these spells. No quirky side effects. No advantages. It's black and white. And it's honestly put, plain boring. I'd HEAVILY recommend making spells with more flavor. And hell, if you even need inspiration, I made my own Pen and Paper-inspired system on tales with tons of spells but not too successful, you're free to copy and take inspiration from there if you're unsure where to start. Or even Dungeon and Dragons 5e's spells(to this one I'd like to note, however, to not look at the cantrips too much. They're designed to be simple to understand to start out with, look at spells from level 1-5 or something). Overall, just make the abilities impose more flavor! Please, the selection is SO MUNDANE.

I'll always help out if I'm asked, if my pale, little opinion is worth anything.

And then there's martial abilities. Popular systems like DnD 5e even suffers from this issue, and right now I feel like all I'm doing as Faelian the Former Farstrider is doing is quick attack, full attack, quick attack, full attack, o shit my hp low BETTER ENRAGED REGENERATION, since there's not really much to do. I've picked up a longbow lately and that's fun. I'd love if you could experiment with clever martial abilities that are STILL VIABLE, that can impose fun conditions just like spells can.

Chapter V: A Story Told Hollow - a Story Unknown

BRUH SILVER-EYE JUST GOT DESTROYED, GREAT, PROGRESS IN THE STORY!

Though that's like, the only thing of note that has recently happened besides trolls crowding my material collection zones(fuck that by the way, shitty ass trolls is getting what's coming to them), and the rest has just been... Nothing. I see there's a few people holding DM ranks, but the last time a DM actively did something concerning me, the big bad enemy guy literally hit 0 HP, and I shit you not, proceeded to run the fuck away. Where a player would've been prone. They literally had enough power to run.

That's railroading, the act of shoving a desired outcome in front of player action. It's. Never. Good. But that's a tale the one who shan't be named has been taught already, or I dearly hope so at least.

So all around me is nothing - I don't know if it's because of my timezone but nothing is happening. No effort to keep the story driven. No effort to tell a story. I role-play to immerse myself in a world where my actions are reflected upon the environment, which the only way it does right now is when y'all find that one spot you love gathering in is fucking desecrated. By yours truly.

Regardless, you really, REALLY, need to have a heavier influence on the world, finding someone AFKing? Summon a bird NPC, make it swoop down and land on a character's shoulder. It's a parrot! It's lost at sea as its vessel has been destroyed, it needs a new owner! Does the player take ownership of it, sell it, give it to the child who came running along and went "yo nibba that's fucking sick", what do they do? Who cares, because what the character does here gives the player an ability to immerse themselves, to put depth to their character, to see what goes on in their head.

And that's just a bird landing.

It could be anything! Get creative boys and girls, and again, I'll always be willing to help if I'm asked. But just make the world alive, no grand storyline is needed for it.

Chapter VI: An End - and a New Book Being Written

I've done what I felt I needed to do, I wrote down my complaints and I hope they'll be processed seriously among staff and council. I've done my very best to make it be as friendly as possible, but in case I didn't make it entirely clear - in my opinion, you NEED to change your ways, otherwise this server will go Abyss, Chronicle, Legacy, dead. It'll be a select few RPing in Tordala, and even then that might end. Who knows. But, from one server owner to... Like, four of them, please don't fuck up. We need more unity and less aggression on the WoWRP Private Server scene.

-76

Edit:

Chapter VII: I forgot something.

This won't be terribly long, but. You need to re-evaluate rarities. Rare RPG tokens should be better than Uncommon RPG tokens, just as they should be better than Common RPG tokens. There needs to be a sense of progress. There isn't. Right now you just offer unique choices instead, and it doesn't work that way. Go watch any video about game design on the matter and they'll tell you the same. In WoW, the more you level up, the more abilities you get, and you get more powerful.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Sevencix

[lukiwi 2]

fully endorse and emphasize the productivity part of this critique

[Sevencix 11]

i forgot something but updated

[Varen 35]

Quickly gonna answer as I'm a bit swamped with stuff to do! I'm sure it won't be a perfect answer, but I'll try what I can for now.

Part 1:
I moved the spawnpoints this morning so that they are only Halfpoint Haven, Drustgarde and the Menhirs port. That should make sure people spawn closer to people.
The NPC really needs updating, and I do want to work it over, it's on my todo list. I want to actually math out the XP options VS the gather VS the rest so that they're as fair as possible.

Part 2:
This needs a lot of thought, but I'm gonna quickly go through an idea I had. *All of these are ideas I had to solve things, and needs investigating to think over how to solve*
-Make productivity work as what makes you gain XP, while fatigue can be used to do work that won't progress the char but will still give you an amount of stuff. Essentially increase the types of things you can do but giving you the option to use a renewable resource for it. Needs thinking on how to balance it to not make it overwork.
-I want to add farming that uses mainly that mechanic, giving new stuff to allow for faster fatigue removal and other effects
-Tools specialised for the work that help you gain more of a specific resource you want (thanks Kogoshi for the idea too)
-Need to rework how architect mats are gotten. Either some specialised tool or some command to just get those.

I'm reticent to just change prod because a lot of things are keyed off the "value of productivity". And that just means more math.
Part 3:
Axis is hard at work at the new isle, Vrahn is on vacay till the 16th, Nostra's on leave for personal issues. 
I am cri.

Part 4:
I'd love for the system to be more interesting. The recent addition of resistances was to try and help with that, as it gives some depth in how you can counter some stuff.
If you'd like to propose some ideas, the BalanceTeam guys on discord are those to speak to. They're the ones in charge of all the mathymaths of combat, and throwing combat abilities at me to code.

Part 5:
I'll leave this part to answer to Elle, as I put 'em in charge of the Keepers team specifically to solve these issues *shoves work away yey*

Part 6:
*Hopeful speech about solving issues. I need to get back to work now*

Part 7:
We need to rediscuss some design on token rarities. One thing we've in the works is trinkets, too, which should add another dimension to equipment. They can even add new abilities!
 

[Elle 18]

I want to say that we are doing the most we can and I can't speak for most of these points. ITs work I can try and -help- with but not something I can, do. Storytelling however...

 

Yes. I know that is lacking. Most of our team is incredibly busy with work and the times they can hop on, are the times when they are either extremely tired, or not when players are generally on.

I've mentioned this several times in discord and I'll say it here. -My- biggest problem is hands. Creativity is very important for DMing and trying to work and come up with lore and story changes, and making the world feel alive is incredibly taxing on. I know both Varen and I feel overwhelmed, and we are doing our best. That said, you hit a lot of things on the head about problems here and I'm working on changing them from where I can to the best of my ability.

 

As for the event you speak about? Yes. I heard and I do not like that. I've constantly brought up from my time as a player to now, that the 'bad guy always getting away' is stupid and overdone and poorly executed band-aiding for a misstep in the planned story. I'm currently finishing up new keeper guidelines that should help fix this issue.

 

And of course, I am -always- taking Applications for Keepers. Varen and I can only do so much between the two of us, as far as heavy activity goes. And the best way to fix problems, is to help with them. Not pointing that finger at anyone in particular, but I am just saying. If you -can- help, but choose to only complain, well, then you have to learn patience, as I'm one mind and one pair of hands.

 

Thank you for the feedback, Sevencix. It is really appreciated and I'm sorry if our responses aren't satisfactory, but our lists are long, mate.

[Sevencix 11]

@Elle heya

i feel like the response is a bit "too" defensive, as there's a clear issue that often times you just don't really see too many dms doing... anything

i can understand being busy, but if people don't write application to ease the workforce, just reach out to individuals

i would apply if i wasn't so unhappy with the system, the setting, etc., so you can completely dismiss this if you'd like, but i'd like to say that it can be done with enough effort, it's just about being persistent enough to hire people

i'll even offer to ask some of the people i know if they wanna dm if you ask me to, even

i should know quite a few

[Elle 18]

@Sevencix

They may be defensive, though I don't think that is the intent. As for the setting, I know a few people have expressed how restricted it feels in terms of DMing, and it isn't as bad as people think. It just takes a little creativity.

 

As for the work related issues and hiring people. I just made an announcement in the discord about hiring, as that is where all the current active players are. Though I'll probably throw up a post on the forums to. Generally speaking, staff positions aside council and management are up for application at any time. 

[Sevencix 11]

19 hours ago, Varen said:

Part 1:
I moved the spawnpoints this morning so that they are only Halfpoint Haven, Drustgarde and the Menhirs port. That should make sure people spawn closer to people.
The NPC really needs updating, and I do want to work it over, it's on my todo list. I want to actually math out the XP options VS the gather VS the rest so that they're as fair as possible.

great to hear, good job

19 hours ago, Varen said:

Part 2:
This needs a lot of thought, but I'm gonna quickly go through an idea I had. *All of these are ideas I had to solve things, and needs investigating to think over how to solve*
-Make productivity work as what makes you gain XP, while fatigue can be used to do work that won't progress the char but will still give you an amount of stuff. Essentially increase the types of things you can do but giving you the option to use a renewable resource for it. Needs thinking on how to balance it to not make it overwork.
-I want to add farming that uses mainly that mechanic, giving new stuff to allow for faster fatigue removal and other effects
-Tools specialised for the work that help you gain more of a specific resource you want (thanks Kogoshi for the idea too)
-Need to rework how architect mats are gotten. Either some specialised tool or some command to just get those.

hey, you could essentially only allow level-ups on stuff that ran off productivity and then allow people to use fatigue to get mats but not get exp

if you're tired you ain't learning

19 hours ago, Varen said:

Part 3:
Axis is hard at work at the new isle, Vrahn is on vacay till the 16th, Nostra's on leave for personal issues. 
I am cri.

hey, i can understand the latter two, but just because you're hard at work with a map, that shouldn't mean you're unable to sit down, share a funny thought, talk with people, just generally show you're present

it's the simple things like that which gives someone presence, which i really suggest y'all to pick up

19 hours ago, Varen said:

Part 4:
I'd love for the system to be more interesting. The recent addition of resistances was to try and help with that, as it gives some depth in how you can counter some stuff.
If you'd like to propose some ideas, the BalanceTeam guys on discord are those to speak to. They're the ones in charge of all the mathymaths of combat, and throwing combat abilities at me to code.

alrighty, i'll go plague them

19 hours ago, Varen said:

Part 7:
We need to rediscuss some design on token rarities. One thing we've in the works is trinkets, too, which should add another dimension to equipment. They can even add new abilities!

would it be too far of a stretch to ask if the community could be involved in this? if one could make a community meeting and run through some points that'd be released before said meeting? should be easy enough to organize, and hopefully people will behave a bit more than they usually do

Edited December 15, 2018 by Sevencix
oops