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Antioch

[Feedback] Critique and Suggestions

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Hello, fellow community members!

 

Lately I have seen a lot of complaints about various issues on the server, mainly regarding staff, management, the RPG system and so forth. However w have to remember that no one is perfect, people make mistakes, even when they are pointed out. Its important to understand that the manner in which we offer our feedback and suggestions is just as important, if not more, than the feedback itself. Hence why I am making this thread. To allow people with genuine concerns to post them in a readable format and not get lost within discord spam. Post the things that bother your about what has been done so far, or what makes your experience on the server possibly not as enjoyable as it could be. 


This thread will be very heavily moderated. Be respectful, concise, to the point and avoid derailing.

[Disclaimer] This thread is not endorsed by the staff team as a whole. I am posting this as a concerned player that is seeing large rifts in the community and wish to see them mended. I will personally respond to any concerns that I can address, but it is up to the rest of the Staff team to decide if they wish to partake in the discussion or not.

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The Balance chat/team is still a mess, 2 months after the thing started. We have about a meeting a month during which Mers tells us why he's right and we're wrong, then he nerfs casters a bit more.

 

There have been no buffs towards caster damage after their ranged advantage went to piss ( HP was doubled ), there are no spells planned to make up for the innate advantage of 3 spells melees have ( Quick/Basic Attack/Fullattack ), which allows a melee with 4 willpower to have as many utility spells ( Purge, Scorned, Battlecry and so on ) as an actual caster. 


Playing a caster is already miserable due to melee DPS doing 50% more damage, but to see casters nerfed 3 patches in a row is laughable.

 

 

Edited by AlexV
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Aight so lemme hit this thing up real quick. I'd make my own thread but I don't want to bloat. These are all my opinion, but okay. 

 

Combat

As Pate has said above, Casters suck ass.
While all characters get QA, BA, and FA, they are only useful for melee characters due to how they work.
QA and BA do not work for casters (and rogues) because, as the system would have it, off-hand is not applied to their damage. Off-hand is only applied to FA, which is a whopping 20 Energy.
Let's fix this by giving the equivalent to players who pick spellcasters, who almost always start with Quivering Knife and an off-hand.

Example: 
Mana Shock: 8 Energy, Target Attack, Mainhand * 50% Weapon + Off-hand * 30% as Magic Damage
Mana Blast: 14 Energy, Target Attack, Mainhand * 75% Weapon + Off-hand * 50% as Magic Damage
Mana Burst: 20 Energy, Target Attack, Mainhand * 135% Weapon + Off-hand * 70% as Magic Damage

Or we can just have off-hands applied to QA and BA as well to help Rogues out.

 

Class Fantasy

This is the meat of RPGs. Warriors are fine. Paladins and Mages are decent. Druids could be better.
All the other classes are fucking ass.

  • Rogues are laughable, there is no stealth and they do piss-poor damage unless they game the system more than they should. Implement combos and combo points.
  • Priests heal the same as paladins but unlike paladins are squishy and have no true damage. That's okay, but Priests do not do anything priesty. Give them Slow, Fear, Mind Control and other abilities that makes people WANT to roll priest. At the end of the day this is a game.
  • Hunters are just sad. Over half their skills cannot be used if they are targeted, forcing them to disengage or be forced to use the QABAFA meme. Give them traps, Pinned Shot, and make it so disengaging doesn't cost so damn much.
  • Give Mages Blizzard.
  • Shamans have no Earth Spells, what is this? Add them you fucks.
  • Druids have a lack of Earthen/Nature/Balance spells, and no one uses the Druid Forms in-combat. Fix this. 
  • A ton of other issues that other people can probably narrow down.

 

Professions

They are mostly okay. But jesus fuck fix how you level. I shouldn't need to spam tents or Forsaken Banners just to learn how to make a door.
Add in Random Discoveries that let you learn new recipes that ARENT LEVEL GATED. Lower prod cost of some creations. Add mass production of some items like planks, seared fish, etc. That cost just as many mats, but less overall productivity than if you were to make 100 Seared Meat one at a time. Add more architect objects. ALL the objects. Do it.

 

Story and Storyline

image.thumb.png.3247c0bfd723830a01a147c1dcdcd613.png

Image aside, there's no overall arching storyline on the server, which wouldn't be so bad if there were smaller storylines being done throughout. But there aren't, everything is in a lull. This drastically needs to be fixed.

 

The World Itself

 

We need more World Edits, more islands, isles and shores. It was only recently that people went back to Sotoras after it being untouched for who knows how long. Last Battleground is laughable, even though it has a volcano now. Kolai is a joke filled with NPCs that can be run down by a 2-player group of 888s. There's only so much returning, current and new players can do on the total of TWO islands with actual content. Menhir's is monopolized by the elves and swarmed with ghosts and hostile entities. Opej only just recently got more NPCs around. I think its high time someone gets to make an entire archipelego of islands to explore.

 

There's a lot more I could say, such as a lack of drive and passion on the Staff side of the server (IMO), but I think I've said my piece. Take it as you will.

 

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A lot of what I'm going to say is in Dascombe's document on another thread, or things I openly say in Discord.

There are a lot of problems here, and to be fair and honest, it isn't the server alone why the pop is dead. We're in a part of the year that RP server akin to Shores shut down or go dead. But, the problems here are not staff alone. Even though I may be repeating myself for the 100th time, I'm going to put it down here on the forums so publicly people know my opinions and my stance.

 

Staff

So, there is a big issue with staff. Namely, three I count as active(and visible about it) and the rest, I'm not even sure do anything. Varen, Antiotch and Hawk are the only three I see online in any capacity. Anti is the only one DMing as far as I can tell. Varen is the only one doing coding and stuff and Hawk the only one who does Helper shit. I know there are people doing decorating and building for the server and future aswell. And I do apprciate they are, when the amount of people who may ever see the work is so low. But, that being said people like Axis, Vrahn, Skippy, Loth, ect. I see them in the discord. MAYBE see them make a post or two, and then silence. I do not see them on. Nor do I hear about them doing anything. If staff are on vacation from the server for whatever reason, cool. I understand. I get it. Hell, having other interests or doing something else while the server is kept alive by the 8ish diehard(and a couple of those are staff) who don't want to go stick their dicks or heads into RPH like servers... Or make their own, its kinda sad. And they should be replaced by people capable and willing to put the time in. Because, even if they are kept and others simply hired, it'd be a mess if they wanted to come back like nothing has changed.

That being said, I'm nto advocating for people to be removed or fired. If people are working in the shadows, atleast poke your head in the light. Let us know what you are doing and shit. It takes maybe a minute to drop a quick announcement. 

 

Point two, Storylines.

 

The current 'storylines' are shit, guys. And please, I am not insulting anyone in particular. I'm not calling ANYONE a bad DM here. But, we have a bunch of big threats that the current pop can not handle without some magical ally of equal power appearing out the ass. And even then, we have what? Sortoras: Eletric Scourge Bugaloo. Kolai: Evil Troll Empire Strikes Again, and Old God: Survival Horror and How to Facedesk. 

 

They are bland and overdone, to begin with. Each one controls an entire Island, and each one is unbeatable currently. I do not mind losing, I do not mind having to actually overcome something. But, when the solution is 'keep hitting the bad guys until they are all dead', my brain wants to just check out. I can predict what is going to happen with each, because they are literally the same thing I've seen the past ten years, just scaled down a tad. 

What I enjoy the most, especially now as a player, is having to use my brain. Not minmaxing and killing. I know he may not have been the best, but Ragulation was my favorite DM because he did things that required some critical thinking and creativity and it was smaller scale things, that still had impact. It made the setting and world feel alive from the NPC side. It made me want to explore and find hidden things. His Shard(Blood of Opej'Nor) storyline was brilliant aswell, in the sense that, I wasn't racing against the clock to kill a BBEG(Big Bad Evil Guy) and I wasn't trying to save the world. I was hunting artifacts. Solving problems and puzzle and figuring out what the fuck this magical shards were and they did.

It was a breathe of fresh air. It made me want to do things on my own revolving magical artifacts and making things. I want more of that, and less 'OH NO A FACELESS ONE HAHAHA'. I mean, sure, there should be one BBEG running around, but it should be a slow turning thing. Allowing players to pursue minor shit and get tougher to handle it, without a steamroll from a lazily designed boss. 

Point Three, LOOT.

 

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, STOP BEING POMPOUS JACKASSES AND GIVE ME SOME FUCKING LOOT.

All caps and angry to sink the importance in. But, seriously guys. Loot from just executing mobs? If that? Like, I am not asking for when I kill a raptor to get the SWORD OF A THOUSAND TRUTHS. But, give me something for my time. 'You slew the bandits! And find a 100 silver on them.' Or, 'You defeat the soldier who was driven insane and find his armor/sword is in good shape 'gives uncommon cosmetic item'. Even if it is far below my current level, something for my time is better then 'that was fun rp, huh?' Because, yea. The RP may be fun. And it may be the main reason I am here, but eventually that alone begins to ring hollow and at the end of the day we are in an RPG. And that is still a game. Just because my selfless paladin may charge in to beat the bad guy up with no expectation of reward does not mean the player is not looking for a reward.

 

Do not make all encounters and events to the level of the party. It is okay to throw some low level trash bandits at players. Or build up some big bad necromancer, only for them to stomp him to dust and get low tier loot. THAT IS FINE. But, what it does is make things feel real, players feel like the work they have put in has paid off. It makes the world feel alive and believable and it feels rewarding, even if it is disappointing in the challenge area. I'm totally cool with the challenge feeling empty sometimes. Not all the time, but come on guys. I don't get loot or XP from events? It feels hollow.

 

Thats really my big gripes on staff. Its a lot and wordy, I know, but I feel I am making good points that others can and will agree with.

 

Players

 

If you think staff are the sole reason for the shit status of the server, you are severely mistaken. There is a large blame that can be pointed on players. As a whole and some individually. For the sake of people not getting offended and butthurt, I will be focusing on the blanket points.

Attitude. Attitude, fucks sake. We players have so much attitude. I could write a research paper on the cause and effect of player's attitudes. But, as a whole, RPers need to change it. We yell and scream when anyone outside our group of friends does something awesome or gets some good loot. We scream nepo, we whine. We talk shit. A damn good example here is Tordala/Menhirs. When an influx of new players hit, a lot of them looked at the people on Menhirs, saw all the shit they had and screamed nepo. But, as someone who was around to observe the events that gave them an entire island, it was anything but. They got fucked hard by staff and the only reason they over came, be it easily or not, was because players banded together and out muscled and out smarted the NPCs in control for the most part. They got the power needed. Tordala got its allies, through a character not even elven. But, nobody cared. Nobody wanted to listen. It was a 'D-DM! T-Those players have stuff I do not!' There was always some reason they got nepo.

 

Seriously, grow a pair. Put some ranks in maturity people. I want Elle to have a bunch of shit, but I'm not screaming cause others put in the time to get it when I wasn't even on the server. I know, that is harsh. But, its an attitude we, as players, have held true to across my ten years in the private wow rp scene. We need to lose it. Calm down, have some patience. Be happy when a fellow Rper succeeds and all that rainbow lovey-dovey shit. Competing OOC only makes shit hostile, especially for newcomers. And I for one, would enjoy new blood to sed-... ROLEPLAY with. 

 

Everyone is different and is here to have fun. If your not, I'll point your ass to the door. And if it was up to me, I'd kick it out. Because, no matter if you hate their RP, or their guts, don't make the environment hostile for others. I am sure I suffer for this and some of my friends do aswell, but we should try to atleast tolerate some stupid shit. Not just for the sake of people we see as bad or shitty RPers, but for the good RPers who will poke their head in and just see that one guy getting torn to shreds.

 

A little preachy, I know. But, its how I feel. I can be harsher and point out specific names. But, I don't want to throw people under the buss publically, because all that does is make me a hypocrite and create a hostile discussion environment right now. I save my shit talking for my buddies and do my best to smile and nod at the people I can't stand. For the sake of the new blood.

 

RPG System

 

I'm not that far down this rabbit hole. I can tolerate a shit RPG system if the above wasn't a problem. But, this does need some heavy change. MAINLY in the combat balance.

 

Hunters and warriors can drop a 600 damage crit. FUCK OFF. If you are going to let two classes do it, atleast let every class do it. But, seriously. A focus on balancing each class needs to be made.

And, I do not mean that each class should be able to easily beat any other. Or, be on equal footing. A defended mage will destroy warriors if not dealt with. A hunter will be ineffective against a plate wearing enemy. Ect, ect. Magic is a huge thing in WoW, so I'm not saying 'Magic users should be super powerful!' But, come on. As a mage, I should not be out DPS'd by a lower tier warrior or hunter. Other then XP, I'll leave this to more skilled and dedicated people.

 

Last point, Experience.

 

Why in all that is logical and fun. Would the only way to get XP be a cap of 45 a day you spend productivity on? Do you want to bend me over and hammer me every day? Like, I can understand spending prod on XP. And capping that at 45. I really can, it gives you a confirmed amount of XP to cover 'training' a day. But, if I jsut killed the Old God, I think I'd get some XP outta that shit. 

 

I'm not asking for XP to be given for every NPC I kill. But, it should be given for events. Example, I am a rogue in a group going through a dungeon. We clear it. All the NPCs are dead. I also, picked eight locks and disabled 10 traps. After the event is over, the DM hands out XP. The part gets a 50xp for killing NPCs, 5xp for the roleplay, and then extra XP for other shit. I get another 20xp for the locks and traps. Total pay out is 75xp. I got 1.5 days worth of login xp for that event and it took us 4 hours of being online and active.

 

This should be a thing. Sure, it changes the balance drastically. The people who can make every event will quickly outdo the people who can't. Thats... kinda fine, if you realize that the DM does have discretion on you joining. Is it a planned event or spontaneous? Did that character just run across the island to join in without knowing shit was going on? Are they Horde in an Alliance event? This also feeds back into players. If you know there is a player who is playing to win, be the best and being a shithead by making every event for the sole reason of OOC motivation? Dms should tell him no. Or, hell. CAP THAT XP TOO. You can go 'but, this is still a problem or, that isn't a solution!' Well, when you treat people like whiny, grabbing children... this is what you get. Put your boot down on shitheads who are playing to win, if you don't want that behavior. But, don't punish everyone by taking away an entire reward system from the equation. All you do is make your entire RPG hollow if the loot is non-existent and shit, and my XP is capped to 45 per account per 24 hours.

 

One last thing. You can keep prod tied to the account. But, please, remove the 45xp cap from being tied to the account aswell. I don't care if I only get 32 extra xp a day to put on another toon and no prod for professions. If I want two combat characters that is my fucking choice. Stop shoehorning me into what you think I should be doing. Thats a dick move. Back in ye ole' tabletop days, it was not uncommon for a player to have multiple characters and the party be three players but six characters. Sure, I can't play both at one time here, but atleast let me have some effectiveness in playing more then one if I wish.

 

 

Alright, I'm done. This is long winded and a gold star to anyone who read all of it and took their time to understand my points. I would like to hammer home, I am not -blaming- or -pointing fingers- at any one in particular. All 'insults' or aggressive language is directed at a mystical target who doesn't exist. And if you -feel- insulted by what I said, perhaps you should take some time and think if what I said rang true about your attitude or ideas and if I have any merit. 

 

That said, I only want to see this server thrive and have fun like I once did again. Nothing more, nothing less.

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It is unacceptable that XP is hidden from players when it was once public. There's no reason to hide it unless people are getting XP added by GMs that they shouldn't have. The staff has been VERY defensive about this and gave crappy reasons for it which to me is suspicious.

 

Moderation is a joke. Worst I've ever seen on any server, and I played on Project Chaos where a feminist was admin.

Varen has banned over 4 people for shit reasons. Those people talk. They spread their negative opinions around and soon enough half the people I knew from Legacy don't want to play here. Furthermore, I have been muted for 2 weeks for saying '' fuck off '' to a person that was in the guild of the person who muted me. Bias and stupidity.

 

I wouldn't have been muted for ''fuck off'' on any server worth a damn.

 

Furthermore, I have never had a positive interaction with Nostra. I really don't understand why he's Council, every issue I've reported has been met with some passive aggressive sarcastic retort like " Well I'm sorry you think so " when reporting legitimate issues. I've once waited hours for him to DM a 15 minute encounter and a few weeks ago he literally told me I can't use an IC artifact I have in my bags because " It would be impossible to transfer " even though I had it. I really don't see what his role here is, he seems far more preoccupied playing Oswald. At least Varen programs and Mers/Vrahn do the RPG system, Vehk just seems to be dead weight. 

Oh, he also made my mute permanent for ''past transgressions'' even though I have received no warning about those. So basically he's useless and biased, too. I hear he pays the bills but as seen with Wake/Dunril that's a very poor reason to give someone power.

 

RPG system

It's balanced by someone ( let's not kid ourselves, Mers has veto over everything, he outright deleted suggestions without any explanation ) that apparently hates ranged classes and offensive magic. Not only is it pretty much impossible to have a competitive caster build that makes IC sense ( what are you going to damage with as a Priest, Divine Sheer? ), but he has this philosophy that melee should do more damage than casters. No one would play mages on Retail if melee DPS were better. Furthermore, the existence of spells like Battle Cry, Obliterate, Burgeoning Rage puts Phys DPS far ahead of Caster DPS, that have no such tools. You see Mages buff people instead of casting Fireballs, because buffing melees is better than doing magic damage since magic damage sucks.

It's unfun, it doesn't respect class fantasy, it makes me not want to play.

Furthermore, physical DPS classes get QuickAttack/BasicAttack/FullAttack all of which are actually better than the magic equivalents ( Basic > Molten, Full > Focused Burn ) despite not costing any ability slots. The result is a meta in which a Warrior at 4 willpower eventually ends up with more utility than a Caster, since the Caster has to spend points on damage abilities the Warrior gets by default.

 

Fatigue system

The new Fatigue is bonkers trash and I have told Vrahn several times that it breaks the game. You get fatigue when you take damage, a LOT of it, and it reduces your damage/healing. This automatically makes DoT builds horrible since the one that bursts you not only does direct damage but he also stacks Fatigue on you, making you deal less damage and healing.

The even WORSE part is that builds that self heal like Shadow Priest are damaged by this even more, since not only do they cause less fatigue damage ( because of DoTs and there being no good Unholy nuke ) but the fatigue also makes them damage and HEAL less, making spells like Siphon and Dplague twice as bad as direct damage spells.

Edited by AlexV

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14 hours ago, Caid said:

Aight so lemme hit this thing up real quick. I'd make my own thread but I don't want to bloat. These are all my opinion, but okay. 

 


 

Class Fantasy

This is the meat of RPGs. Warriors are fine. Paladins and Mages are decent. Druids could be better.
All the other classes are fucking ass.

  • Rogues are laughable, there is no stealth and they do piss-poor damage unless they game the system more than they should. Implement combos and combo points.
  • Priests heal the same as paladins but unlike paladins are squishy and have no true damage. That's okay, but Priests do not do anything priesty. Give them Slow, Fear, Mind Control and other abilities that makes people WANT to roll priest. At the end of the day this is a game.
  • Hunters are just sad. Over half their skills cannot be used if they are targeted, forcing them to disengage or be forced to use the QABAFA meme. Give them traps, Pinned Shot, and make it so disengaging doesn't cost so damn much.
  • Give Mages Blizzard.
  • Shamans have no Earth Spells, what is this? Add them you fucks.
  • Druids have a lack of Earthen/Nature/Balance spells, and no one uses the Druid Forms in-combat. Fix this. 
  • A ton of other issues that other people can probably narrow down.

 

 


Rogues are top 3 physical DPS in the game with a proper build, you just haven't found it yet. Haytham does more DPS than me at half the XP. Killing Spree is the strongest one-turn nuke in the game.

Priests are fine-ish, the issue is that Greater Heal is weaker than Holy Shock on average despite taking 2 turns to use ( nonsensical shit that I pointed out to Mers but he hates Priests ). The bad part is that Unholy/Shadow characters have no nuke to use. Shadow Blast is absolute dogshit, since it's a DoT that can be dispelled/MR'd/won't kill the target since it takes 2 turns to do damage. Also the Fatigue System makes Devouring Plague/Siphon/selfheal builds trash.

Mages have Pyroblast, which is the strongest caster Nuke. It should be stronger and everyone else should have access to a similar spell that does less damage than Pyro. Obliterate not being DK only but Pyro being Mage only is sheer madness and puts phys DPS ahead of casters even more. Another thing I said to Mers that he ignored.

Hunters are amazing. Vincent was the strongest character on the server at the time of his departure. You just need to find the proper build. There's a Caveat ( hue ) in that you kinda need Crippling Shot/Point Blank Shot or a spear the more HP people get. Also Twin Snipe. Yes, you can't do full DPS in melee, nor should you be able to. Twin Snipe is incredibly strong with the proper build and set up and you have tools like Frost Trap at your disposal. Also you could just go melee Hunter and melt faces with Beastial Wrath.

Druids are AMAZING. Moonkin form gives them +7% crit +5% damage reduction, which makes them the best healers and caster DPS. Cat form is also literally the strongest DPS in the game.

Edited by AlexV
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6 hours ago, Elle said:

A lot of what I'm going to say is in Dascombe's document on another thread, or things I openly say in Discord.

There are a lot of problems here, and to be fair and honest, it isn't the server alone why the pop is dead. We're in a part of the year that RP server akin to Shores shut down or go dead. But, the problems here are not staff alone. Even though I may be repeating myself for the 100th time, I'm going to put it down here on the forums so publicly people know my opinions and my stance.

 

Staff

So, there is a big issue with staff. Namely, three I count as active(and visible about it) and the rest, I'm not even sure do anything. Varen, Antiotch and Hawk are the only three I see online in any capacity. Anti is the only one DMing as far as I can tell. Varen is the only one doing coding and stuff and Hawk the only one who does Helper shit. I know there are people doing decorating and building for the server and future aswell. And I do apprciate they are, when the amount of people who may ever see the work is so low. But, that being said people like Axis, Vrahn, Skippy, Loth, ect. I see them in the discord. MAYBE see them make a post or two, and then silence. I do not see them on. Nor do I hear about them doing anything. If staff are on vacation from the server for whatever reason, cool. I understand. I get it. Hell, having other interests or doing something else while the server is kept alive by the 8ish diehard(and a couple of those are staff) who don't want to go stick their dicks or heads into RPH like servers... Or make their own, its kinda sad. And they should be replaced by people capable and willing to put the time in. Because, even if they are kept and others simply hired, it'd be a mess if they wanted to come back like nothing has changed.

That being said, I'm nto advocating for people to be removed or fired. If people are working in the shadows, atleast poke your head in the light. Let us know what you are doing and shit. It takes maybe a minute to drop a quick announcement. 

 

Point two, Storylines.

 

The current 'storylines' are shit, guys. And please, I am not insulting anyone in particular. I'm not calling ANYONE a bad DM here. But, we have a bunch of big threats that the current pop can not handle without some magical ally of equal power appearing out the ass. And even then, we have what? Sortoras: Eletric Scourge Bugaloo. Kolai: Evil Troll Empire Strikes Again, and Old God: Survival Horror and How to Facedesk. 

 

They are bland and overdone, to begin with. Each one controls an entire Island, and each one is unbeatable currently. I do not mind losing, I do not mind having to actually overcome something. But, when the solution is 'keep hitting the bad guys until they are all dead', my brain wants to just check out. I can predict what is going to happen with each, because they are literally the same thing I've seen the past ten years, just scaled down a tad. 

What I enjoy the most, especially now as a player, is having to use my brain. Not minmaxing and killing. I know he may not have been the best, but Ragulation was my favorite DM because he did things that required some critical thinking and creativity and it was smaller scale things, that still had impact. It made the setting and world feel alive from the NPC side. It made me want to explore and find hidden things. His Shard(Blood of Opej'Nor) storyline was brilliant aswell, in the sense that, I wasn't racing against the clock to kill a BBEG(Big Bad Evil Guy) and I wasn't trying to save the world. I was hunting artifacts. Solving problems and puzzle and figuring out what the fuck this magical shards were and they did.

It was a breathe of fresh air. It made me want to do things on my own revolving magical artifacts and making things. I want more of that, and less 'OH NO A FACELESS ONE HAHAHA'. I mean, sure, there should be one BBEG running around, but it should be a slow turning thing. Allowing players to pursue minor shit and get tougher to handle it, without a steamroll from a lazily designed boss. 

Point Three, LOOT.

 

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, STOP BEING POMPOUS JACKASSES AND GIVE ME SOME FUCKING LOOT.

All caps and angry to sink the importance in. But, seriously guys. Loot from just executing mobs? If that? Like, I am not asking for when I kill a raptor to get the SWORD OF A THOUSAND TRUTHS. But, give me something for my time. 'You slew the bandits! And find a 100 silver on them.' Or, 'You defeat the soldier who was driven insane and find his armor/sword is in good shape 'gives uncommon cosmetic item'. Even if it is far below my current level, something for my time is better then 'that was fun rp, huh?' Because, yea. The RP may be fun. And it may be the main reason I am here, but eventually that alone begins to ring hollow and at the end of the day we are in an RPG. And that is still a game. Just because my selfless paladin may charge in to beat the bad guy up with no expectation of reward does not mean the player is not looking for a reward.

 

Do not make all encounters and events to the level of the party. It is okay to throw some low level trash bandits at players. Or build up some big bad necromancer, only for them to stomp him to dust and get low tier loot. THAT IS FINE. But, what it does is make things feel real, players feel like the work they have put in has paid off. It makes the world feel alive and believable and it feels rewarding, even if it is disappointing in the challenge area. I'm totally cool with the challenge feeling empty sometimes. Not all the time, but come on guys. I don't get loot or XP from events? It feels hollow.

 

Thats really my big gripes on staff. Its a lot and wordy, I know, but I feel I am making good points that others can and will agree with.

 

Players

 

If you think staff are the sole reason for the shit status of the server, you are severely mistaken. There is a large blame that can be pointed on players. As a whole and some individually. For the sake of people not getting offended and butthurt, I will be focusing on the blanket points.

Attitude. Attitude, fucks sake. We players have so much attitude. I could write a research paper on the cause and effect of player's attitudes. But, as a whole, RPers need to change it. We yell and scream when anyone outside our group of friends does something awesome or gets some good loot. We scream nepo, we whine. We talk shit. A damn good example here is Tordala/Menhirs. When an influx of new players hit, a lot of them looked at the people on Menhirs, saw all the shit they had and screamed nepo. But, as someone who was around to observe the events that gave them an entire island, it was anything but. They got fucked hard by staff and the only reason they over came, be it easily or not, was because players banded together and out muscled and out smarted the NPCs in control for the most part. They got the power needed. Tordala got its allies, through a character not even elven. But, nobody cared. Nobody wanted to listen. It was a 'D-DM! T-Those players have stuff I do not!' There was always some reason they got nepo.

 

Seriously, grow a pair. Put some ranks in maturity people. I want Elle to have a bunch of shit, but I'm not screaming cause others put in the time to get it when I wasn't even on the server. I know, that is harsh. But, its an attitude we, as players, have held true to across my ten years in the private wow rp scene. We need to lose it. Calm down, have some patience. Be happy when a fellow Rper succeeds and all that rainbow lovey-dovey shit. Competing OOC only makes shit hostile, especially for newcomers. And I for one, would enjoy new blood to sed-... ROLEPLAY with. 

 

Everyone is different and is here to have fun. If your not, I'll point your ass to the door. And if it was up to me, I'd kick it out. Because, no matter if you hate their RP, or their guts, don't make the environment hostile for others. I am sure I suffer for this and some of my friends do aswell, but we should try to atleast tolerate some stupid shit. Not just for the sake of people we see as bad or shitty RPers, but for the good RPers who will poke their head in and just see that one guy getting torn to shreds.

 

A little preachy, I know. But, its how I feel. I can be harsher and point out specific names. But, I don't want to throw people under the buss publically, because all that does is make me a hypocrite and create a hostile discussion environment right now. I save my shit talking for my buddies and do my best to smile and nod at the people I can't stand. For the sake of the new blood.

 

RPG System

 

I'm not that far down this rabbit hole. I can tolerate a shit RPG system if the above wasn't a problem. But, this does need some heavy change. MAINLY in the combat balance.

 

Hunters and warriors can drop a 600 damage crit. FUCK OFF. If you are going to let two classes do it, atleast let every class do it. But, seriously. A focus on balancing each class needs to be made.

And, I do not mean that each class should be able to easily beat any other. Or, be on equal footing. A defended mage will destroy warriors if not dealt with. A hunter will be ineffective against a plate wearing enemy. Ect, ect. Magic is a huge thing in WoW, so I'm not saying 'Magic users should be super powerful!' But, come on. As a mage, I should not be out DPS'd by a lower tier warrior or hunter. Other then XP, I'll leave this to more skilled and dedicated people.

 

Last point, Experience.

 

Why in all that is logical and fun. Would the only way to get XP be a cap of 45 a day you spend productivity on? Do you want to bend me over and hammer me every day? Like, I can understand spending prod on XP. And capping that at 45. I really can, it gives you a confirmed amount of XP to cover 'training' a day. But, if I jsut killed the Old God, I think I'd get some XP outta that shit. 

 

I'm not asking for XP to be given for every NPC I kill. But, it should be given for events. Example, I am a rogue in a group going through a dungeon. We clear it. All the NPCs are dead. I also, picked eight locks and disabled 10 traps. After the event is over, the DM hands out XP. The part gets a 50xp for killing NPCs, 5xp for the roleplay, and then extra XP for other shit. I get another 20xp for the locks and traps. Total pay out is 75xp. I got 1.5 days worth of login xp for that event and it took us 4 hours of being online and active.

 

This should be a thing. Sure, it changes the balance drastically. The people who can make every event will quickly outdo the people who can't. Thats... kinda fine, if you realize that the DM does have discretion on you joining. Is it a planned event or spontaneous? Did that character just run across the island to join in without knowing shit was going on? Are they Horde in an Alliance event? This also feeds back into players. If you know there is a player who is playing to win, be the best and being a shithead by making every event for the sole reason of OOC motivation? Dms should tell him no. Or, hell. CAP THAT XP TOO. You can go 'but, this is still a problem or, that isn't a solution!' Well, when you treat people like whiny, grabbing children... this is what you get. Put your boot down on shitheads who are playing to win, if you don't want that behavior. But, don't punish everyone by taking away an entire reward system from the equation. All you do is make your entire RPG hollow if the loot is non-existent and shit, and my XP is capped to 45 per account per 24 hours.

 

One last thing. You can keep prod tied to the account. But, please, remove the 45xp cap from being tied to the account aswell. I don't care if I only get 32 extra xp a day to put on another toon and no prod for professions. If I want two combat characters that is my fucking choice. Stop shoehorning me into what you think I should be doing. Thats a dick move. Back in ye ole' tabletop days, it was not uncommon for a player to have multiple characters and the party be three players but six characters. Sure, I can't play both at one time here, but atleast let me have some effectiveness in playing more then one if I wish.

 

 

Alright, I'm done. This is long winded and a gold star to anyone who read all of it and took their time to understand my points. I would like to hammer home, I am not -blaming- or -pointing fingers- at any one in particular. All 'insults' or aggressive language is directed at a mystical target who doesn't exist. And if you -feel- insulted by what I said, perhaps you should take some time and think if what I said rang true about your attitude or ideas and if I have any merit. 

 

That said, I only want to see this server thrive and have fun like I once did again. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just on the subject of Warriors and Hunters doing that much Damage, if you take 600 from either well then you're not doing something right, if you're talking about PVE then why is that an issue? It is always like that in every game in every system that Casters->  Fighters in the early game and once Fighters start getting gear they do more than casters, I still bet that Friandir can probably nuke me without me doing much to him. And this "600 and such things, happen when the person has Battle Cry X " Good luck getting that when you're pvping with someone ( which balancing should be made around not some 20 man event where you can buff to your hearts content) I mean yesterday I hit a person that had 6k HP for 1.5k Damage with ATK order, Bcry X, and Burg Rage that had about 9 turns of ticking... which yeah would never happen if I wasn't allowed to try it.

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40 minutes ago, Skeleton said:

Just on the subject of Warriors and Hunters doing that much Damage, if you take 600 from either well then you're not doing something right, if you're talking about PVE then why is that an issue? It is always like that in every game in every system that Casters->  Fighters in the early game and once Fighters start getting gear they do more than casters, I still bet that Friandir can probably nuke me without me doing much to him. And this "600 and such things, happen when the person has Battle Cry X " Good luck getting that when you're pvping with someone ( which balancing should be made around not some 20 man event where you can buff to your hearts content) I mean yesterday I hit a person that had 6k HP for 1.5k Damage with ATK order, Bcry X, and Burg Rage that had about 9 turns of ticking... which yeah would never happen if I wasn't allowed to try it.


Lol, why does Blizzard balance PvE then? Just let Warriors do 90000 DPS. What kind of argument is that?

It doesn't respect class fantasy and roleplay for mages to hit like wet noodles. And yes, Battle Cry might not be that good in 1v1 but in big fights it's very well worth it.

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2 hours ago, AlexV said:


Lol, why does Blizzard balance PvE then? Just let Warriors do 90000 DPS. What kind of argument is that?

It doesn't respect class fantasy and roleplay for mages to hit like wet noodles. And yes, Battle Cry might not be that good in 1v1 but in big fights it's very well worth it.

YOu won't have big fights where people are allowed to battle cry, let them cry to 3 you do purge on prio targets rip, and What I said was true warriors were shit at start of xpack in raiding casters are doing the work, right now warriors can compete and they nerf/buff around pvp much more than they do for PVE 

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5 hours ago, Skeleton said:

Just on the subject of Warriors and Hunters doing that much Damage, if you take 600 from either well then you're not doing something right, if you're talking about PVE then why is that an issue? It is always like that in every game in every system that Casters->  Fighters in the early game and once Fighters start getting gear they do more than casters, I still bet that Friandir can probably nuke me without me doing much to him. And this "600 and such things, happen when the person has Battle Cry X " Good luck getting that when you're pvping with someone ( which balancing should be made around not some 20 man event where you can buff to your hearts content) I mean yesterday I hit a person that had 6k HP for 1.5k Damage with ATK order, Bcry X, and Burg Rage that had about 9 turns of ticking... which yeah would never happen if I wasn't allowed to try it.

When I am playing a mage, with almost 5k XP and the best gear I can get, and a hunter with 3k drops a 600 crit like its nothing jsutbecuase of a OP buff, it makes me feel like all my work is pointless. I put so much into make a good mage, and any lower tier melee of hunter can out do me by double what my biggest crit is with my build. It ruins the class fantasy. Even if it is harmless in PvP, the fact PvE is still that unbalanced is wrong.

And no, in classic tabletops like DnD, the mage starts out weak and almost worthless. In higher levels the spell caster out DPs and utilities in combat most melee/ranged based classes and builds.

Edited by Elle

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36 minutes ago, Skeleton said:

YOu won't have big fights where people are allowed to battle cry, let them cry to 3 you do purge on prio targets rip, and What I said was true warriors were shit at start of xpack in raiding casters are doing the work, right now warriors can compete and they nerf/buff around pvp much more than they do for PVE 


That's when Blizz was shit at balance. And in just about any RPG it's the mages that are truly strong lategame due to a myriad of spells they can get. Here, after 4 months, I have 7.

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2 hours ago, Elle said:

When I am playing a mage, with almost 5k XP and the best gear I can get, and a hunter with 3k drops a 600 crit like its nothing jsutbecuase of a OP buff, it makes me feel like all my work is pointless. I put so much into make a good mage, and any lower tier melee of hunter can out do me by double what my biggest crit is with my build. It ruins the class fantasy. Even if it is harmless in PvP, the fact PvE is still that unbalanced is wrong.

And no, in classic tabletops like DnD, the mage starts out weak and almost worthless. In higher levels the spell caster out DPs and utilities in combat most melee/ranged based classes and builds.

It takes this hunter a fair bit of turns before he can hit 600, while you can do 500 aswell, I could do 350 on my mage with 1.5k exp so not sure what you're doing there

@Alex at the start of Every single expansion warriors/dks/paladins are down on DPS meter , and it is balanced as they need weapons and stuff to get their increase. You saying it's bad at balance means literally nothing as you haven't tried balancing stuff for big amounts of people " Hey lets buff mages so they can nuke fighters down even faster in PVP " yeah ... that isn't a good idea. 

You as mages already have utility such as heals/purge/buffs that dont need to be stacked to 10 to be useful. 

Edited by Skeleton
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2 hours ago, Skeleton said:

It takes this hunter a fair bit of turns before he can hit 600, while you can do 500 aswell, I could do 350 on my mage with 1.5k exp so not sure what you're doing there

@Alex at the start of Every single expansion warriors/dks/paladins are down on DPS meter , and it is balanced as they need weapons and stuff to get their increase. You saying it's bad at balance means literally nothing as you haven't tried balancing stuff for big amounts of people " Hey lets buff mages so they can nuke fighters down even faster in PVP " yeah ... that isn't a good idea. 

You as mages already have utility such as heals/purge/buffs that dont need to be stacked to 10 to be useful. 

I've never hit over 302 on a pyroblast crit. With 9 wp and 8 ing and all my gear built around that one spell. Molten blast, when ti does crit, I can get 400. But, my chance is terribly low as I am not optimized for it. That said, yes we do have more utility, but most of them are pointless to take in the current combat. Amplify magic is the msot useful I've seen that fits my character.

That said, It took three turns for the last hunter I saw to be able to drop that. In the same time, I do half his damage. Since a pyroblast is an autocrit and it is doing 302 on a crit, I'm not likely to see higher.

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47 minutes ago, Skeleton said:

It takes this hunter a fair bit of turns before he can hit 600, while you can do 500 aswell, I could do 350 on my mage with 1.5k exp so not sure what you're doing there

@Alex at the start of Every single expansion warriors/dks/paladins are down on DPS meter , and it is balanced as they need weapons and stuff to get their increase. You saying it's bad at balance means literally nothing as you haven't tried balancing stuff for big amounts of people " Hey lets buff mages so they can nuke fighters down even faster in PVP " yeah ... that isn't a good idea. 

You as mages already have utility such as heals/purge/buffs that dont need to be stacked to 10 to be useful. 


Mate, here's some simple math.

Physical buffs-- Burgeoning Rage ( +5% every turn ), Battle Cry ( 25% dmg ), Attack Order ( 14% damage ), Ogre Attune ( +0.3 Will as STR )

Magic-- Amplify Magic ( 15% dmg ), Sorc Attune ( + 0.3 Will as Will )

That's it. Rager/Master can be applied by/to the physical DPS as well. Moot point.

Now, Obliterate is 165% weapon damage and always crits. A basic attack with 8 STR Barb Sword is off my memory, 126 damage.

A Molten Blast at 8 Willpower is on average 109 damage.

You see the issue? Phys DPS is far, far ahead of magic damage. Both in raw numbers, scaling and in buffs. Why would I cast Rager on a Mage to boost his 100 damage to 140 when I can use it on a warrior and boost his 126 ( +Bcry, Atk Order, etc. )
 

Quote

You as mages already have utility such as heals/purge/buffs that dont need to be stacked to 10 to be useful.



Like Phys DPS doesn't have utility, lol. Cripple, Purge, Attack Order, Battlecry, Sunder armor/Pierce, Shove. Cease this meme right now.

No one stops a Warrior from using Purge. Hell, it's a melee spell. If anything they use it more. No one stops you from using Willpower based buffs, either. Not the point, though. Magic DPS should not be so much weaker. 
 

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Every single expansion warriors/dks/paladins are down on DPS meter



Yeah, citation fucking needed. Right now Warriors, Rogues, Hunters and Demon Hunters are killing the meters.

 

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I've never hit over 302 on a pyroblast crit. With 9 wp and 8 ing and all my gear built around that one spell. Molten blast, when ti does crit, I can get 400



That's unlikely. Molten is 775%, Pyro is 900% ( and crits ). You just had really bad RNG.

Edited by AlexV

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28 minutes ago, AlexV said:


Mate, here's some simple math.

Physical buffs-- Burgeoning Rage ( +5% every turn ), Battle Cry ( 25% dmg ), Attack Order ( 14% damage ), Ogre Attune ( +0.3 Will as STR )

Magic-- Amplify Magic ( 15% dmg ), Sorc Attune ( + 0.3 Will as Will )

That's it. Rager/Master can be applied by/to the physical DPS as well. Moot point.

Now, Obliterate is 165% weapon damage and always crits. A basic attack with 8 STR Barb Sword is off my memory, 126 damage.

A Molten Blast at 8 Willpower is on average 109 damage.

You see the issue? Phys DPS is far, far ahead of magic damage. Both in raw numbers, scaling and in buffs. Why would I cast Rager on a Mage to boost his 100 damage to 140 when I can use it on a warrior and boost his 126 ( +Bcry, Atk Order, etc. )
 



Like Phys DPS doesn't have utility, lol. Cripple, Purge, Attack Order, Battlecry, Sunder armor/Pierce, Shove. Cease this meme right now.

No one stops a Warrior from using Purge. Hell, it's a melee spell. If anything they use it more. No one stops you from using Willpower based buffs, either. Not the point, though. Magic DPS should not be so much weaker. 
 



Yeah, citation fucking needed. Right now Warriors, Rogues, Hunters and Demon Hunters are killing the meters.

 



That's unlikely. Molten is 775%, Pyro is 900% ( and crits ). You just had really bad RNG.

Not sure where they kill these Meters, in LFR ? go check warcraftlogs, and the hunters are all BM hunters where weapon dmg doesn't matter 
Next thing yeah, warriors have all that utility but do we have WP for all the spells we need ? no we don't you as a mage go WP for dmg plus the extra spell stuff, love how you forgot that burgeoning rage also increases dmg taken, and once again for ogre is useless w/o high WP. Not to mention the buffs/debuffs you use on mage, and you saying it's so much weaker I didn't see that apart from fully buffed obliterate, and do none of you guys use Focused burn ? and warriors do need to move from target to target they need to damage. Also i wanna see a warrior healing as much as mages. Talking bout regular warriors not 7k EXP 8 in all stat warrior that can heal dmg and everything, hell at that point mages can do the same if they take different abilities.

EDIT: I will stop responding after this cos I forget nothing can change your opinion. But yeah this is mine, as i've played mage and I can see it's advantages

Edited by Skeleton

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Quote

Next thing yeah, warriors have all that utility but do we have WP for all the spells we need ?



Battle Cry, Burgeoning Rage, Attack Order, Purge, Cripple, Boomerang Toss do not require Willpower and are great buffs.

Quote

Not to mention the buffs/debuffs you use on mage, and you saying it's so much weaker I didn't see that apart from fully buffed obliterate, and do none of you guys use Focused burn ? 



Focused Burn is below FullAttack in average damage despite costing 1 skill shot. Molten Blast is below Basic Attack despite costing 1 skill slot and 1 more energy.
 

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Talking bout regular warriors not 7k EXP 8 in all stat warrior that can heal dmg and everything,

 


The system is balanced assuming you have 8 in your stats.

 

 

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hell at that point mages can do the same if they take different abilities.

 


Unless they use melee weapons for phys damage, no they can't.

 

7a32faa62059a49e8d51bb871ea94d78.png

This is Heroic Uldir.

You can clearly see Affli Locks competing with phys DPS. The reason other casters are behind is that Uldir fights require lots of mobility, but Blizz has no mentality that ranged DPS should be worse. Also BM Hunters are ranged, too. Not like their pets die from AoE.

 

Edited by AlexV

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I should've mentinoed this sooner. But, if you are comparing a tabletop RPG homebrew(which our RPG system is) to retail wow, slap yourself. They are completely different beasts. If you want to compare power, do it with another tabletop RPG like DnD, Pathfinder, Microlite, ect.

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I will say that desiring parity of DPS across all classes is an unrealistic and frankly boring expectation and archetypes have much more to offer the system than their raw damage potential. Even DPS archetypes in this system do not need to deal the same damage provided the one that is weaker in that aspect provides sufficient support or etcetera in other capacities. Designing with this in mind also enables people to hybridize when design philosophy is not focused on damage.

 

I will say, the argument that fighters deal more damage than wizards in other roleplaying systems at higher levels is incredibly flawed - the opposite is generally true.

 

In terms of an actual suggestion, I would like more hybrid abilities. It's possible I do not understand the system enough and what I desire is already possible but, some abilities designed for, for example, melee healers would be nice! Don't limit it to Paladins either, let Shaman and Druid types get in on the fun. Maybe play around with the engaged mechanic, some sort of melee strike that deals limited damage but heals the next person engaged with the enemy for a significant amount when they land a strike, or fun stuff like that. Maybe a healing "cleave" where you hit the boss and it heals a number of other people who are also engaged with him.

Also, let class specific abilities be flavorful, and not necessarily required for certain builds - though there may be a case to be made for them being optimal.

Edited by Potato
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