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AlexV

The new Fatigue system is horrible for balance and unfun

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Posted (edited)

So I'll keep it short and sweet.

1. Fatigue on damage vs Fatigue on incap; Fatigue has ruined DoT builds.

First of all, I won a fight against a Warrior and he had less fatigue than I did ( he was about 19%, I was about 25% ), despite me winning at about 700/900 hp. This is... just mindblowing, really. It shows that fatigue taken when damaged is way too high and fatigue taken when incapped is way too low.

 

Healing should reduce the fatigue taken in that round, fatigue increments should be added at the end of the round based on damage taken vs healing taken. If I take 50 damage in a round but heal for 70 I should take no fatigue damage. Otherwise you make Deathstrike/Siphon/DPlague builds straight trash as they do half the damage of a DPS build and you promote a playstyle where if you play DoTs instead of burst damage you're gimping yourself. Focused Burn is probably the best build for me right now. Why bother with DOTs that reduce damage when you can do damage that reduces the damage the enemy does via Fatigue? Do you want to see people spamming Focused Burn/Molten Blast/Basic Attack, doing as much burst as possible to stack Fatigue up on the enemy?


Fatigue on damage needs to be dramatically reduced, you can make up for it with fatigue on Incap. The class fantasy of draining classes ( Warlock , DK, Shadow Priest ) isn't that they win the fight but are somehow in worse shape than the dude who lost, it's that they win by outlasting. If your fatigue is higher you didn't outlast anything, how can you be more tired than the dude you just beat the shit out of?

Option 2 is to implement damage tresholds. You fall under 50% HP? You get fatigue. You fall under 25% ? You get fatigue. You fall under 5% ? More fatigue. You get incapped? Surprise, you di-- you get fatigue.

But punishing players that are sitting at over 70% hp is just weird. It invalidates all self heal builds as they will never compete in damage with a burst build.


2. Fatigue goes down far, far too slow.

When I read the draft for Fatigue (v2) I saw " Fatigue goes up rapidly in combat and goes away rapidly out of combat ". Something about 10 minutes after you'd be in 'Good' shape from 10%. Lol. It takes more than an hour to go from 10% to 0%, not to mention 25%. 

The fatigue you get from .rpg act flee takes more time to deal with than Grave Wounds. That's insane. You're better off eating a gravy than the fatigue. With the nerf to wine ( unnecessary ) that further increases down time, which does not please anyone. I fought 4 vipers in a row and I was already at 15% fatigue. Goddamn Vipers, that I was beating when I had 500 XP. And now my 4000 XP char  got 15% fatigue after fighting 4, which will take over an hour to go back to 'Good'.

Edited by AlexV

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As a fellow dot/sustain build it really does shaft us pretty hard :(

 

The healing/damage reduction of fatigue also seems weirdly overtuned.

(I have 7 willpower)

 

dafuq.png

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I like the idea of not being able to chew through hordes of enemies, that's fine. But completely falling apart due to fatigue does not a good system make. During my final confrontation with Fzhuzhem I had to nerf his health at one point because no matter how I held back people were being eaten alive by their fatigue. It felt like seal clubbing if I didn't, and we should be able to feel heroic sometimes. If we had a combat XP system that rewarded XP for combat, as name would imply, we could have a nerf to XP gain when reaching a certain fatigue level (good, winded, exhausted, delirious) something like that

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7 hours ago, Bob Ross said:

I like the idea of not being able to chew through hordes of enemies, that's fine. But completely falling apart due to fatigue does not a good system make. During my final confrontation with Fzhuzhem I had to nerf his health at one point because no matter how I held back people were being eaten alive by their fatigue. It felt like seal clubbing if I didn't, and we should be able to feel heroic sometimes. If we had a combat XP system that rewarded XP for combat, as name would imply, we could have a nerf to XP gain when reaching a certain fatigue level (good, winded, exhausted, delirious) something like that


I would like fatigue gain to be tied to HP.

 

<75% minimal

<50% moderate

<25% high

That way self heal builds aren't utter trash and you can use DoTs more freely, since burst loses its ridiculous power.

 

Also recovery needs to be sped up a lot.

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8 hours ago, Bob Ross said:

I like the idea of not being able to chew through hordes of enemies, that's fine. But completely falling apart due to fatigue does not a good system make. During my final confrontation with Fzhuzhem I had to nerf his health at one point because no matter how I held back people were being eaten alive by their fatigue. It felt like seal clubbing if I didn't, and we should be able to feel heroic sometimes. If we had a combat XP system that rewarded XP for combat, as name would imply, we could have a nerf to XP gain when reaching a certain fatigue level (good, winded, exhausted, delirious) something like that

I WISH combat gave XP. I would have it so that enemies give XP based on their CR, so 10-19 give 2XP, 20-29 give 3XP, etc.

At 50% or higher fatigue, you could dock the XP rate by 2 points, so that 10-19 give no XP and 20-29 only give 1XP.  Something like that.

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With the current system allowing for a cap of 45 XP per day it would admittedly be difficult to work the pacing out for XP earned through kills, but integrating it into the fatigue system could be a decent way of padding it out. It'd also free up more productivity per day making people less likely to resort to underhanded means like multiboxing to gain resources, and encourage alting which has also been a dissuading factor for new and old players alike.

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No XP grinding please and thank you, they did it on Legacy and it was abused to no end.

 

Fatigue needs to take a huge hit to the amount you get from damage and either give a lot more when you get incapped or give little over 50% hp and a lot under 25%.

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Honestly I always though the morrowind approach was a good idea, improving skills by using them, allowing you to more naturally progress and even train with others. But that'd be a major overhaul and is getting off topic. If gaining combat experience through experiencing combat and having fatigue alter how well you absorb that, then I dunno, that's my best solution, and it wouldn't necessarily need a cap removed. I don't friggin know, that's why the devs get paid the big bucks :^)

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