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Dascombe's Armour & Weapons Thread

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Oh look. Dascombe's on a new server.

You know what that means?

 

DASCOMBE'S ARMOUR & WEAPONS THREAD

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Image - Pinterest https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3a/37/25/3a372591e19b00d42af2f4c7a8c179ce.jpg

Yes once again, Dascombe's weapons thread is open for discussion and tasty tasty images of manuscripts, pointy things and people hurting each other in new and inventive ways.

 

How does this work?

 

Principally this is a sort of discussion thread frequently used by people to get a better understanding of weapons / armour utilised by characters and to understand how things would work in certain 'what if' situations.

Please do note the following:

Whilst I am an archaeologist and a 15th century re-enactor in real life, WoW & Unknown Shores are in a -FANTASY- setting. I will endevour to take this into account in my responses. (I hope you will too)

My main area of expertise is on 15th century European weapons however I do have passing knowledge in arms & armour from other periods / locations.

Debate thread =/= 'MY OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOURS'. Do consider the forum rules of friendly discussion etc.

Please keep a healthy dose of skepticism in this thread and do ask for sources. In some regards I may be able to provide personal experiences i've had with these weapons / armours.

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Is it feasible that a tauren ( ~half a ton ) or an orc ( 150kg+ ) could break the arm of a smaller race, if they are blocking with a shield? Via say a hammer, or axe.

 A Tauren has about -twice- the weight of a grizzly bear, but their build is better for swinging since they are bipedal. Bears... are known to kill moose in one hit.

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53 minutes ago, AlexV said:

Is it feasible that a tauren ( ~half a ton ) or an orc ( 150kg+ ) could break the arm of a smaller race, if they are blocking with a shield? Via say a hammer, or axe.

 A Tauren has about -twice- the weight of a grizzly bear, but their build is better for swinging since they are bipedal. Bears... are known to kill moose in one hit.

Good question, I retort with the following:

 

0:44 - 1:06

Check this and with particular note i'd like to draw your attention to the physique of both the Orc and the Human.

Whilst we know that the Orcs and Taurens are incredibly muscular even from young ages into late adulthood, humans are far more muscular than the typical human. They seem to have a far more square jawline and generally have a more powerful physique than any hollywood actor you've seen (move over Schwarzenegger).

This (I believe) is due to the Vrykul ancestry that humanity have inherited partially.

 

So whilst the typical human may not be as powerful as an Orc or a Tauren, they wouldn't get their arm broken when behind a shield. I'd be more worried about the axe actually punching its way through the shield and ripping into the metal with enough force (unless using a thicker gauge of metal).

Tauren are tanks though like humans I wouldn't mind betting there is a large degree of physical dimorphism in them in the sense that you get both teeny tiny Tauren and then ones who, if they were human, would be a Gregor Clegane size.

If it's the latter, you need only look at the Tauren in the Battle for Azeroth trailer 

2:23 - 2:27

Throw a Tauren in armour and you basically have a charging battering ram. But the Tauren, to my knowledge, are not as numerous population-wise as the Orcs. I'd view one used in this capacity as a heavy-duty support / heavy infantry unit.

It's worth pointing out that where the Horde have strenth, the Alliance can counter that with more advanced tactical thinking. That is what puts Horde vs Alliance into an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object.

 

 

TL:DR

It depends on the human and it depends on the Orc / Tauren as all three races can have different body forms and shapes.

Edited by Dascombe

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So plate armor is generally safe from thrust attacks and slashes to the metal itself. With the added force of hundreds of pounds of muscle that races like tauren or ogres have, would they be able to stab a spear or sword clean through an ogre/tauren wearing a breastplate? 

Now you may think an ogre will have an ogre sized breastplate but the metal has the same properties and resistance to impact regardless of how much area it covers. It could be thicker but we re talking half a ton of muscle here.

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10 hours ago, AlexV said:

So plate armor is generally safe from thrust attacks and slashes to the metal itself. With the added force of hundreds of pounds of muscle that races like tauren or ogres have, would they be able to stab a spear or sword clean through an ogre/tauren wearing a breastplate? 

Now you may think an ogre will have an ogre sized breastplate but the metal has the same properties and resistance to impact regardless of how much area it covers. It could be thicker but we re talking half a ton of muscle here.

Plate armour's weakness lies in the fact it generally fails to cover the eyes, crotch, armpits, backside and back of the legs. These are usually covered with maille which is vulnerable to piercing when the opportunity presents itself. Getting a sword, dagger or a spear into these points is ideal but difficult in fast paced combat (usually reserved for when you knock your opponent off their feet)

I highly doubt that even an ogre / tauren will stab a spear straight through the plate on two grounds:

#1 armour is sloped and curved, it is very difficult to get a spear or the point of a longsword to stay onto the centre of a breastplate without it glancing off to the edges where its threat is minimized.

#2 it is more likely that the spear (unless constructed in a specific way) would snap at the socket and reduce you to using effectively a sharpened stick. Don't forget that you could put a thousand pounds of strength behind a toothpick... end of the day the toothpick will just snap.

 

Honestly with a musclebound Orc / Tauren your best bet is to utilize bulky and heavy duty weapons like pollaxes, halbards, axes, warhammers and the like. Even a good mace will do the job!

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Hi, would like to request a staff member to move this to the 'General Discussion' section if possible please?

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Okay boy, why would a snake be able to chomp through mail armor when? I'm curious, do snakes just have some innate ability to chomp through armor? It's bad enough they can withstand being beheaded by a massive axe.

Tell me how I'm wrong.

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Go outside and try to hit an angry viper with an axe because when you land on the island, like it or not, you are basically like we are right now. A normal ass human being (Or some weird fantasy race)

 

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16 minutes ago, Caid said:

Okay boy, why would a snake be able to chomp through mail armor when? I'm curious, do snakes just have some innate ability to chomp through armor? It's bad enough they can withstand being beheaded by a massive axe.

Tell me how I'm wrong.

IN1204_.jpg

 

Meet the needle bodkin arrowhead. End of conversation.

 

On a counter note, how is it I am unable to one shot you from 90 yards away with a rifle? Y'know, bullets which are more than capable of bursting through chain and plate alike.

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Mail is better against slash-like attacks.
But it is still vulnerable to piercings. Being, you know, rings. A snake can quite easily fit a fang through it.

Now if you had a mad amount of padding on you, yea you could make the arguement it'd be impossible but hey.

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Considering the vipers are huge... Yes, they can bite through mail easily. You are not going to wear a ton of padding, you' keep it fitted to your body and only as thick as needed. A normal snake may not have fangs long enough to break the shin through mail and the padding under it. But, a giant fantasy wow viper? Yes. Just be glad your character doesn't die from the poison without an antidote.

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Actually that wound depend entirely on the bite force of the Viper and as far as I remember Vipers rely on... Well. Venom/Ambush tactics irl. Not to mention anyone who'd be wearing mail/plate would have layered armor beneath since plates only cover so much and would be combined with mail and padded armor, you can maybe argue that padded armor wouldn't be too common, sure, but that's typically, as far as I remember, what is worn beneath mail of all kinds and even then wouldn't be hard to come by in the slightest even in such a situation like the islands with as many former military/warrior type personnel are about in terms of races who would use such like Humans. (Though would totally be a bitch to swim in given how much water it'd take in aylmao.)

I know this is, well, a medieval stuff thread but Vipers are sluggish ambush predators that hardly ever give chase, "This is because many vipers rely on their camouflage for protection rather than their ability to move quickly. They are more inclined to blend in with the surrounding brush, rocks or ground cover when being approached by a predator than to slither away.", the closest comparison from IRL vipers of similar size would be a Gaboon Viper which is beyond passive and only strikes when directly threatened, such as accidentally being stepped on but despite that is typically handled with relative ease. Bushmaster too, perhaps? Unsure, at any rate. Either way I can't find anything on the type of bite force Vipers have to try to scale it up, but, y'know.

Also in terms of the Tauren/Spear stuff, while they'd do well to use massive weapons, longer reach weapons like spears/pikes (Not that WoW actually has any of these, all the spear models blow) would absolutely be more effective against Tauren, Ogres, anything large, just logically. Not that it quite matters here given the lack of armies and such but a Tauren charging is more or less just like a Cavalry charge and if you spearwall that shit it's GG.

Edited by SomePerson

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1 hour ago, AlexV said:

If we used realism the tauren in plate armor would wreck everyone.

Come on.

Magic

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